Partygate

That's one fine and there are others still being investigated and of course the Sue Grey report is being issued soon. If Parliament doesn't vote him out when they return next week there is no hope.

GillT57

Brilliant but chilling post OakDryad.

Agreed.

Democracy is dying before our eyes when one of the key features of a democracy is respect for the rule of law.

A point for all the 'don't care' people. It wasn't just one party, there were sixteen at least that were referred to the police. Johnson and Sunak have been issued with SIX fixed penalty notices, which means that they were present at more than one party. They broke the law. The law that they themselves devised, passed in parliament and told us that everyone had to obey. NO-ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW

How can anyone be comfortable with this?

It is interesting that some of the same posters who were saying they would vote Tory as the party of law and order, who would like to see stiffer sentences, stop and search etc., are often the same posters who think those of us who are extremely concerned about the corruption of the rule of law by Johnson are getting it out of proportion.

Absolutely, Carrie should not have organised/allowed a birthday party for Boris. But compared to the good work that Boris, Rishi and co did getting us through the pandemic, why are we all so fixated on events from two years ago instead of getting the law changed and getting the police to act far more effectively on the actions of the Eco-group and Extinction Rebellion? Surely anyone attempting to cut off essential supplies should be jailed immediately.
I do not hear many people complaining about the Covid jabs or furlough payments or the government’s actions in supporting the Ukraine.

She's just popped up on another post.

Here she is again.

An 11 minute birthday tea and cake after working all day is not a issue for me .

HolySox

Far as I can read Boris won't get a criminal record for his FPN.

I was surprised he paid it ... if the birthday cake was a surprise in an otherwise official meeting it sounds like 'entrapment' and a good barrister could have defended him. Putting it in perspective, if a tealady had wheeled in the afternoon refreshments would the police have issued a fine?

No. Apparently it would only become a criminal act if he didn't pay the fine.

It wasn’t illegal to have a party precisely because it was illegal to hold a gathering of more than one household or a certain number of people. Outside it was allowed for up to 30 people in July 2020 but I’m not sure about June when this happened. I suspect therefore that the garden gathering was not illegal but the indoor gatherings were subject to different rules, but I don’t know how these rules applied to workplaces which are clearly different from private homes.
That’s why I don’t care. The rules applied to private homes were different from the rules in workplaces. Outdoor areas were different again. I attended a gathering in early July of 13 people. Despite someone on Gransnet telling me it was illegal, it wasn’t. My son is a barrister and read all the rules (legal) and all the guidelines (not legally enforceable) before he had his barbecue in his extremely large garden where we had no need to be close to other people. He would never have broken any laws because of his profession.
I suspect that this is why the police took so long to make their enquiries. It is not simple, it is complex. How many people were allowed to gather in a workplace? Do you know? I suspect that there was no finite number because some workplaces are huge, including number 10. Everyone thinks they know the law but probably most of you don’t. That’s why I don’t care. I think the police had to make fines because of the public feeling about it all. They had to establish that ‘parties’ took place because gathering in a workplace cannot have been illegal but covered by guidance instead. So the police say they were parties, I have big doubts about that to be honest. It’s not as straightforward as it would appear.

I voted Conservative after looking at the alternatives.

I'm concerned as to who is capable of taking our country forward.
I 've looked, ...& still yet to find a suitable candidate.

Has anyone yet told us why these parties were not reported at the time, by anyone?

maddyone, please see my post today on this thread at 13:14, which explains why waht they did was illegal.

It is actually quite simple.

I think the whole cabinet is a disgrace, they lied to get into power (remember the bus anyone?) and have lied to stay there. To go to parliament and stand and say he knows of no party then gets fined and so do others is surely perjury

Now Tory mp Michael Fabricant has said that teachers and nurses were partying so Sunak and Johnson aren't so bad!
What? Is he mad? He needs to resign for such an odious disgusting remark.
Is there no depth this government wont stoop to?

Apparently he says it didn’t cross his mind it could have been a party. I’ve been to some rubbish parties in my time but really!!!!

What really annoys me is the fact that I and my DH stuck to the rule of law rigidly ,even to the point that our DD and 3 grandchildren paid £1000 to rent a cottage near us for a few days as we hadn't seen each other for months and months because of lockdown. We only met outside because we were so worried the neighbours would inform the police. Now we hear that those who made and enforced the law broke the rules themselves. A case of " don't do what I do, do what I say"

I genuinely don’t get how anyone can vote conservative after the antics of this corrupt incompetent government

volver
Thank you for your reply. However obviously in workplaces there were hugely more people gathered than 2. Number 10 is both a workplace and a private home. It would have been illegal for more than one household or 2 people to gather in a private house. I might be wrong but I think the rule of 2 was only for 2 single people anyway in recognition of the possible mental health repercussions after full lockdown. At that time there was also a bubble facility which we used to visit my elderly mother. With regard to the question it comes down to whether there was a party or not because people were allowed to be in workplaces obviously eg hospitals, shops, distribution centres, government cannot operate without workers being in their workplaces. So were there parties? To my mind, not really. We always had cakes on birthdays in my workplace, it’s normal to do that. Ten minutes does not a party make, but it all comes down to opinion.

However obviously in workplaces there were hugely more people gathered than 2.

They could have been in the same building without being in the same room. That's how it worked in my workplace at the start of the lockdowns.

It is irrelevant whether they were "parties" or not. They were not fined for "having parties". The problem was that they gathered together in the same room for purposes that were not required by work. Which was illegal for people from different households, whether they worked together or not.

susieconvento123

An 11 minute birthday tea and cake after working all day is not a issue for me .

It wasn't 11 minutes! The police, who took exhaustive evidence, said it was at least one hour.

And that wasn't the only party he was fined for.

And that must be the reason the police issued the fines mustn’t it volver. To my mind it’s splitting hairs, but as I said it’s all down to each person’s opinion.

I still think Maizie it depends on how you define a party.

But he lied to parliament.

The ministerial code was broken.

maddyone

volver
Thank you for your reply. However obviously in workplaces there were hugely more people gathered than 2. Number 10 is both a workplace and a private home. It would have been illegal for more than one household or 2 people to gather in a private house. I might be wrong but I think the rule of 2 was only for 2 single people anyway in recognition of the possible mental health repercussions after full lockdown. At that time there was also a bubble facility which we used to visit my elderly mother. With regard to the question it comes down to whether there was a party or not because people were allowed to be in workplaces obviously eg hospitals, shops, distribution centres, government cannot operate without workers being in their workplaces. So were there parties? To my mind, not really. We always had cakes on birthdays in my workplace, it’s normal to do that. Ten minutes does not a party make, but it all comes down to opinion.

But maddy The POLICE said it was a party. And he was fined for attending more than one party...

And, the whole of No 10 is not his private residence. For a start, he doesn't even live in No. !0, he lives in No.11. And the only bit that is his 'private residence' is the flat he lives in. The rest of the building is a workplace.

I am a bit disappointed in your posts. I always thought you had better judgement...

maddyone

And that must be the reason the police issued the fines mustn’t it volver. To my mind it’s splitting hairs, but as I said it’s all down to each person’s opinion.

Perhaps refer it to you barrister son and ask him why he thinks the fines were issued? The only opinion that counts is the police, in this instance, and anything else is just making excuses.

maddyone

I still think Maizie it depends on how you define a party.

It's irrelevant whether they were together for a "party" or a non-essential gathering. It was illegal at the time.

maddyone

I still think Maizie it depends on how you define a party.

Sending people out for a suitcase full of booze sounds like a party to me. So do invitations which say 'bring your own bottle'. And discoes and karaoke's...

Why are you wriggling so hard?