The law as it stands on sex, Part 2

How strange.... every public toilet that's being maintained that I've gone into has had a sign on the door stating "Cleaning in process which may be undertaken by a male attendant" as well as a yellow triangular bollard to warn you as you approach.

The facilities I've come across that say they have male and female attendants always have a sign outside saying the facilities are closed for cleaning if the cleaner is male.

I can imagine the uproar if a woman came out of a cubicle and was presented with a man.

trisher I've always gone through life not being judgemental...

At first when I saw trans people shouting about their rights I didn't really understand why they were doing it because most people I know go through life just, whatever people get up to is up is their own business I suppose as long as they aren't causing harm to anyone... And they weren't, no one knew they were there.

Yet now I can see why all the shouting, people are trying to drag hard won equalities of living for everyone backwards in time... For everyone, women too.

All due to philosophical beliefs

I just want to go back to minding my own business lol

I do think there is a lot of regressive stuff too but its a different perspective from you. I am agog that phrases like dress as a woman etc are not challenged for the sexism they are.

Feel free

I think the "dress like a woman" trope is trotted out so frequently because that's the easiest thing that a male can do to replicate what he thinks a woman is. When you have politicians who stumble, mumble and stutter whilst they try to think up what a woman actually is, they turn themselves inside out not to say FEMALE ADULT HUMAN.

The first women's only toilets were opened in London's West End in the 1880's. It's certainly very regressive that we are having to fight for something today, which was first made available all those years ago.

Autogynephilia is “a male's propensity to be sexually aroused by the thought of himself as a female” and is present in up to 2.8% of the male population. Some of whom transition as a result of it.
Understanding this paraphilia is imperative for all of us talking about the ongoing erosion of women’s rights.

The link below contains the personal accounts of some Autogynephilic transsexuals. Be warned: it is graphic but does give some insight as to why their is conflict between women, and men who identify as women, was inevitably bound to arise.

loreleihatpin.substack.com/p/autogynephilia?s=r

Chewbacca

How strange.... every public toilet that's being maintained that I've gone into has had a sign on the door stating "Cleaning in process which may be undertaken by a male attendant" as well as a yellow triangular bollard to warn you as you approach.

Yes, and they are usually cleaned in daytime. My friend was attacked at night, when the place was busy.

My feelings about this are nothing to do with being judgemental, or about 'philosophical beliefs'. They are to do with a vivid memory of something that badly affected a good friend. We were young, carefree , on a night out, and it ended so badly that she never got over it. I'll never forget it either.

This is an extract from a letter sent from Dennis Noel Kavanagh, Legal commentator at Lesbian and Gay News, to Twitter, following his account being permanently suspended for what appears to be an orchestrated and homophobic attack on the principle of free speech in the context of the ongoing gender debate. In its entirety, it's a long read and I know that some will struggle with that, but, if you can cope with long text; it's a brilliant summation of how the aggressive trans ideology has caused immense and irreparable damage to women, lesbians and homosexual men.

Biology denial / gender is misogynist

This ideology reduces the concept of womanhood to a feeling and demands the abolition of all female boundaries whether that be same sex spaces in prisons, sports, changing rooms or hospitals wards. Female survivors uncomfortable with the presence of natal males in rape shelters (somewhat remarkably) are told by proponents of this ideology they are “bigots” who should “reframe their trauma”[9]. Women speaking out on this issue are harassed in the workplace (see Maya Forstater, Professor Kathleen Stock, barrister Allison Bailey) and online (see the rape and death threats to JK Rowling apparently permitted on your platform until an article in the Daily Mail prompted action[10]). To assist you with the detail of that last matter, your company initially took the view that a video in which it was said the narrator was “hoping to see author in a hearse” did not breach your guidelines.

Biology denial / gender is racist

Speaking at a conference for the UK’s only charity for same sex attracted people, the LGB Alliance, Allison Bailey, (a black lesbian) said in the keynote address she had never known racism such as that emanating from biology denial / gender ideology. I agree with her. The targeting of Allison, Sonia Appleby, Kiera Bell and the public vilification of Baroness Kishwer Falkner bear out the suggestion that the public enemies of this ideology often targeted are women from ethnic minorities. The Minister of State (Minister for Levelling up Communities) and Minister of State (Minister for Equalities) Kemi Badenoch MP condemned the attacks on Baroness Falkner drawing particular attention (correctly in my view) to the fact the charities responsible for them should not drive one of the few minority ethnic females in the UK from public life. I add to this that countless black women have said publicly that they object to being treated as a subset of the class “woman” in answer to biology denial activists speaking of them in such terms.

dennisnoelkavanagh.substack.com/p/twitter-is-silencing-gay-men

Galaxy

I do think there is a lot of regressive stuff too but its a different perspective from you. I am agog that phrases like dress as a woman etc are not challenged for the sexism they are.

I have seen transwomen dressed in as many different ways as I have seen natal women. The term "dress like a woman" is mostly used when people start demanding how you can tell the difference between a trans women and a natal woman and the truth is you can't always tell. Sometimes you can, but often in trying to be accepted the transwoman will go over the top. But then many of the girls I see on nights out have gone OTT as well as far as I'm concerned.
It isn't sexism to use the term it is simply trying to find a vocabulary that will deal with what is happening. I very much fear though that the expression will be used more and more as people look at those using facilities and begin to challenge anyone who looks less than 100% like a woman. And that won't impact just on transwomen .

I dont care why people are sexist, its just boring nonsense that I thought we had got beyond years ago. Live as a woman is another load of nonsense, and that mostly originally came from the medical profession.

Galaxy

I dont care why people are sexist, its just boring nonsense that I thought we had got beyond years ago. Live as a woman is another load of nonsense, and that mostly originally came from the medical profession.

That's actually a requirement for a GRC.-live like a woman

Yes I know. I am afraid that as has been proved recently the system within the health service doesnt always act without misogyny.

VS
Just never really thought anything of it.
And because she didn’t think anything about it, neither should any woman.
We have been told!
She is now the arbiter of all female thoughts and concerns. If it doesn’t bother her . . .

Now wait for trisher’s whataboutery .
Let me guess?
Aha! Male toilet cleaners!
Do you know they have a sign on our public toilets which advises if the male cleaner is in there.
That’s because a man understands some women!s concerns better than you do. He doesn’t stay in there any more than he lingers in the men’s loos.
Wonderful.

Sorry, I didn’t mean wonderful, I meant . . .
Fascinating!

Chewbacca thank you for that link. It is a long read but so worth the time investment. Dennis is a lovely, principled man who has been targeted by some of the most hateful TRAs .

I very much fear though that the expression will be used more and more as people look at those using facilities and begin to challenge anyone who looks less than 100% like a woman. And that won't impact just on transwomen.

Here is India Willoughby talking in a charmingly inclusive way about someone who looks less than 100% like a woman. Any comment on that?

(for anyone who doesn't know, India Willoughby is a transwoman who went into the celebrity Big Brother house as a woman. In fact as a woman in the all-female house the year they had one.)

I saw that and the follow ups. India definitely is anti butch lesbian, can't stop herself. India famously said that women (by which she meant females) who didn't shave their legs were 'dirty'. And India insists India has a cervix and was willing to show it! Given India does not have a uterus I think India will have a hard time locating the neck of said uterus which is the cervix. India has a neo-vagina, perhaps India thinks the blocked off end of that is a cervix? I also note she is now tweeting against her erstwhile fan and 'best friend' Piers Morgan.
I will give India one thing. Unless she's changed her mind (and that's very possible) she did confirm that even after years of hormone treatment her muscle strength was still greater than a natal woman.

Yes, the threat to lesbians comes from transwomen, not from the gender critical.

I believe that India identifies as ‘cis’. I have no idea how that works, but through the looking glass anything goes.

I think thank goodness that being a crappy person isn't a protected characteristic..

If I could find any group of any discription that didn't have an element of crappy behaviour somewhere I'd be all over it...

My Intersectional feminist group has been the closest I've found and even then, no one's perfect

Doodledog I can't believe you don't realise India said the magic incantation and 'wow' every cell in her body changed its DNA to become female! And as she identifies as female she is now entitled to declare herself 'cis' even if that remains an offensive term to many women of the female variety, who should shut up, shove up, and genuflect to India's superior knowledge and experience of what it is to be a woman! Catch up please, you're embarrassing us natal women

India Willoughby suffers from a severe form of self delusion. It's a common problem in the TRA world - if they keep telling themselves something is true, no matter how implausible, they convince themselves it must be true.

VS who are you calling 'crappy person' ? Is this evidence of your kindness you constantly bleat about? Have the guts to come out honestly who you're referring to, cowardice is not an attractive quality.

Rosie51 I was talking about Indian's unkind comments (if the source is to be trusted but I'm taking it at face value)

Could you apologise for your response please.