Latest from Ukraine

For all his world beating and ridiculous bluster, only 1/4 of arms promised by the U.K. has arrived in Ukraine.

nanna8

We have been through a minor version of government dictatorship during Covid when we had a night curfew and were only allowed to travel 5 kms. That was a Labour government of course. They tend to like controlling people. It went on for 2 whole years . Ridiculous when you have all the expense of night time helicopter patrols making sure the roads were empty. Not at all comparable with the dreadful Russian onslaught though the mindset of those left wing dictators is familiar.

I don't think that temporary covid regulations, which were implemented for the benefit of all citizens and were, on the whole, happily complied with because everyone thought they were doing the right thing (apart from, in the case of the UK, the NO.10 Downing Street establishment) to curb the spread of the virus, are in anyway comparable with the repression practised on their populations by dictators.

I don't see it like that nanna8. Moves towards dictatorship have been seen in the UK but not by following the science on covid.

It was shown by the attacks on the BBC - an attempt to silence free speech. We also saw it in the cuts in our judiciary and by the pushing further into poverty the very people who might complain about the way this government works. I am sure others could add to the list but by protecting us from a deadly disease? Where the UK actually managed to sort things out after killing many of the elderly - no, not that.

I think nanna8 is posting about her experiences in Australia.

As I posted a while ago "People think Australia is a liberal country but it's not".

Without a doubt, better than Russia though, No?

Yes, but perhaps posters thought she meant the UK.

My friend’s daughter studied Russian and French at university. As part of her course she was required to spend six months in Russia. She stayed in a small town/village out in the sticks somewhere and stayed with a family. They were dirt poor. My friend and her daughter supported the family for years afterwards by sending clothes, food, and gifts which were very much appreciated. Life in major cities is fairly like the west, but the majority live in the countryside and are poor. Very poor.

Callistemon21

Yes, but perhaps posters thought she meant the UK.

I knew she was posting about Australia. She regularly posts in this forum and we know she's in Australia.

Namsnanny

Without a doubt, better than Russia though, No?

nanna8 did say:
Not at all comparable with the dreadful Russian onslaught

Of course it isn't, we all know that but, as far as I am aware, far more stringent than anything here.

he stayed in a small town/village out in the sticks somewhere and stayed with a family. They were dirt poor.

This is one of the reasons why Putin's propaganda works so well. Much of the Russian population is very poor. they can't afford the technology that would give them access to alternative information. They rely on the very tightly controlled state media.

I still can't come to terms, though, with the idea that they are positively supporting the extermination of the Ukranian people.

Are these poor Russian peasants indoctrinated by state media, really any different from poor people in the UK who get their news and opinions from the right wing gutter press Maizie?

varian

Are these poor Russian peasants indoctrinated by state media, really any different from poor people in the UK who get their news and opinions from the right wing gutter press Maizie?

The difference being that the poorer section of the Russian population have little if no choice of viewing or newspapers, whereas the population of the U.K. has a choice and access to multiple news outlets.

I still can't come to terms, though, with the idea that they are positively supporting the extermination of the Ukranian people

Me neither, MaizieD
We saw on TV news what seemed like normal, decent pleasant women, the kind you might meet anywhere, who agreed whole-heartedly with what Putin was doing.
Possibly Mothers? Grandmothers?

They've been brainwashed and have no other sources of information.

varian

Are these poor Russian peasants indoctrinated by state media, really any different from poor people in the UK who get their news and opinions from the right wing gutter press Maizie?

Do you mean that none of these poor UK peasants read the Daily Mirror?

Unfortunately the Mirror reading poor folk are in a minority Calli

I still can't come to terms, though, with the idea that they are positively supporting the extermination of the Ukranian people

I'm not sure that they are. I think they are being told that the Nazis who have taken over Ukraine are doing it, and its them who are killing all these women and children. They also believe that the Ukrainians are really Russians and that they are doing a sacred duty by sending their sons in to fight the oppressors and free their Ukrainian brothers.

The Kremlin and the soldiers? Who knows what they believe.

Russia's education system all but collapsed in the 80's. It was a case of not being able to spread limited resources to support and improve education for the masses.
Some say that's why the Generals have made.so many poor decisions.
Although, one would have thought their experience in Chechnya etc. would have born fruit?
Propaganda, no education, and fear of the state, it's no wonder so many dont speak out against the war.

Thanks Callistemon for correctly interpreting my post. Somehow I just knew someone would say you cannot compare our oppression here with the dreadful things happening in the Ukraine. Of course not and I said so,too. I repeat in case of skim reading or whatever. OF COURSE NOT. Just that I get so sick of people generalising about right wing extremism when there is a lot of left wing extremism around too. Probably more in my experience lately. I am not and never have been a Tory/ Conservative in my life in case you are wondering.

nanna8

Thanks Callistemon for correctly interpreting my post. Somehow I just knew someone would say you cannot compare our oppression here with the dreadful things happening in the Ukraine. Of course not and I said so,too. I repeat in case of skim reading or whatever. OF COURSE NOT. Just that I get so sick of people generalising about right wing extremism when there is a lot of left wing extremism around too. Probably more in my experience lately. I am not and never have been a Tory/ Conservative in my life in case you are wondering.

I'm sorry if you think I read your post the wrong way, but the point I was trying to make was that covid restrictions in a 'free' country don't indicate a tendency to repressive dictatorship. They were made by a freely elected government acting to curb the spread of what they (rightly) regarded as a lethal disease in order to protect the population. Did the Australian opposition parties object to this? Do you see it as a means for the government to obtain limitless and unchallengeable power?

Imposing restrictions for the wellbeing of the population is, in my mind, completely different from imposing restrictions and eliminating opposition with the sole aim of retaining power for ever... Do you seriously think that the latter is the aim of your Labour government?

They're not even comparable principles...

nanna8

Thanks Callistemon for correctly interpreting my post. Somehow I just knew someone would say you cannot compare our oppression here with the dreadful things happening in the Ukraine. Of course not and I said so,too. I repeat in case of skim reading or whatever. OF COURSE NOT. Just that I get so sick of people generalising about right wing extremism when there is a lot of left wing extremism around too. Probably more in my experience lately. I am not and never have been a Tory/ Conservative in my life in case you are wondering.

I believe that Liberal in Australia is a misnomer, too, nanna8!
And, unlike the UK Police, Australian police are armed.

nanna8

Thanks Callistemon for correctly interpreting my post. Somehow I just knew someone would say you cannot compare our oppression here with the dreadful things happening in the Ukraine. Of course not and I said so,too. I repeat in case of skim reading or whatever. OF COURSE NOT. Just that I get so sick of people generalising about right wing extremism when there is a lot of left wing extremism around too. Probably more in my experience lately. I am not and never have been a Tory/ Conservative in my life in case you are wondering.

I think, in Western democracy, there is more right-wing extremism manipulating democracies and moving towards, or in our case, into power, than left-wing extremism, nanna8. However, no form of extremism helps as far as I can see and usually lead to a backlash towards the other extreme.

I wonder where you are seeing the rise of left-wing extremism and where you see that rise as looking as if it can succeed.

I'm not sure why people are declaring they are "not a Tory". I haven't seen it until this last week or so. Is there a mental "but" we should be reading into this?

Have you all noticed the change in tone and language from our country and from the USA? It's quite a dramatic change. Also, we are both putting diplomats back into Ukraine. I wonder if it's hit both countries that the attack is on all our democracies.

I am also wondering if we will get the extra weapons to the Ukraine army on the front line in time. There was talk from one US official that the Allies could take the arms further into Ukraine so the troops didn't have to come so far back to pick them up and then return to whole way to the front line but I haven't heard that repeated. The same person suggested that there is now such a variety of weaponry in Ukraine that it would be reasonable for NATO (I think it was NATO) countries to have some war games nearer to Keiv, so they can all learn to use them. I would guess that was a stick to poke Putin with rather and an actual plan but why now I wonder? It would certainly wind up the Russians and may be why they are making nuclear threats once more.

MaizieD

Callistemon21

Yes, but perhaps posters thought she meant the UK.

I knew she was posting about Australia. She regularly posts in this forum and we know she's in Australia.

I'm afraid I didn't and I thought nanna8 was talking about the UK. I really don't remember all the details about members. I'm not sure why we should be expected to. Apologies anyway.

Sorry, I used the word Tory because I thought that is what they were called in the UK. We don’t have that term here and it is a long time since I lived in the UK. My bad. Sometimes ,when you live a long way away, you tend to remember places and events as they once were.

If you are talking about Johnson’s political party, they are still called The Tories.