Champagne Socialist

I’m a Prosecco sipping anti tory floating voter.

Baggs I went to university in 1968 which probably says it all. ?
Brought up a true blue Conservative, never wavered from socialism since I learnt to think for myself, occasionally voted LibDem tactically. Like living in France because I think it is essentially a socialist country, no matter what flavour of politician is in charge.
Drink Cava, followed by Prosecco and then a sparkling Saumur. Don't tell the neighbours. ?

Whitewavemark2

Whitewavemark2

MaizieD

So my ideal government is

One presiding over a capitalist economy

You should be loving our current government then...

I am really shocked that people forget about mixed economies.

You then don’t give consideration to my third sentence?

Just to expand on what I mean.

My theory is that everything flows from the economic order.

I may not necessarily think it is the ideal, but I think that at present our present level of political maturity only works with a capitalist system.

I recognise that of its nature the capitalist economic system is one of exploitation. Exploitation being used in an objective sense. I also argue that business does not necessarily exploit resources for the common good, like air and soil quality and other such.

Because of this I think we need a strong democratic state, that uses the rule of law to control this exploitation of resources.

So this included resources such as labour, and raw materials, but also air quality, soil quality, etc.

Control may therefore take the form of state managed resources. This can be achieved both by the rule of law e.g. prevention of further carbon exploitation, or by nationalisation, like water - (I think that there is a strong argument for this) or other resources.

So in effect I see a mixed economy as possibly necessary in order to give a smooth running to a capitalist economy, allowing for fair access to resources, and oiling the wheels like good public transport to get people too and from work.

In my view a mixed economy has nothing to do with the socialisation of an economy, but an economy that is focused on the efficient and fair running of a market economy.

Mamie have you tried Cremant? it’s very smooth with much softer bubbles than Cava.

It is getting popular and easier to locate in the U.K. now, but as you are in France it should be easy to find.

GrannyGravy13

Mamie have you tried Cremant? it’s very smooth with much softer bubbles than Cava.

It is getting popular and easier to locate in the U.K. now, but as you are in France it should be easy to find.

I have! We always have that instead of Prosecco etc.

Yes I have had cremant (Alsace and Bourgogne) GG13 and have enjoyed them. There are also some pink bubbles made from Languedoc wines that are quite interesting. I do like Spanish wine though.

Whitewavemark2 I find it goes down far too quickly and smoothly ??

Mamie

Baggs I went to university in 1968 which probably says it all. ?
Brought up a true blue Conservative, never wavered from socialism since I learnt to think for myself, occasionally voted LibDem tactically. Like living in France because I think it is essentially a socialist country, no matter what flavour of politician is in charge.
Drink Cava, followed by Prosecco and then a sparkling Saumur. Don't tell the neighbours. ?

I went to uni six years after you, mamie. Brought up socialist and was an active member of the Labour Party until near the end of the last century. Gradually since then I have become what is essentially politically homeless.

Well, my interpretation of a champagne socialist has always been someone who realises that they personally would be worse off financially under a Labour government but feel it is worth it if the majority of people have access to ether health care, schooling and housing. Having campaigned over the past few years with people from all parties ( excluding UKIP) I’ve found that most people want what’s best for the people of this country but just disagree about how the economy should be run and many believe ( imo wrongly) that Conservative economic policy is better.

MayBee70

Well, my interpretation of a champagne socialist has always been someone who realises that they personally would be worse off financially under a Labour government but feel it is worth it if the majority of people have access to ether health care, schooling and housing. Having campaigned over the past few years with people from all parties ( excluding UKIP) I’ve found that most people want what’s best for the people of this country but just disagree about how the economy should be run and many believe ( imo wrongly) that Conservative economic policy is better.

? that’s a good description.

I don’t like champagne very much but I believe everyone has a right to drink it if they want to. I am a socialist, and I most definitely do not support the capitalist system. The results of that system are what we have now - an ever increasing gulf between the richest and poorest. I believe in a strong welfare state and nationalisation of key industries and services - but I am definitely not a communist and actually something of a libertarian. A mass of contradictions me.

The guy who does maintenance work on my house who lives in sheltered accommodation and has a partner with ongoing health problems doesn’t vote Labour because it’s full of champagne socialists. Which probably sums up what’s strange about peoples voting habits. I’m voting to make myself financially worse off to support someone like him who votes Conservative. Make of that what you will

nightowl

I don’t like champagne very much but I believe everyone has a right to drink it if they want to. I am a socialist, and I most definitely do not support the capitalist system. The results of that system are what we have now - an ever increasing gulf between the richest and poorest. I believe in a strong welfare state and nationalisation of key industries and services - but I am definitely not a communist and actually something of a libertarian. A mass of contradictions me.

So what do you mean by socialist? Do you believe in a different form of economic system?

MayBee70

The guy who does maintenance work on my house who lives in sheltered accommodation and has a partner with ongoing health problems doesn’t vote Labour because it’s full of champagne socialists. Which probably sums up what’s strange about peoples voting habits. I’m voting to make myself financially worse off to support someone like him who votes Conservative. Make of that what you will

?

MayBee70

The guy who does maintenance work on my house who lives in sheltered accommodation and has a partner with ongoing health problems doesn’t vote Labour because it’s full of champagne socialists. Which probably sums up what’s strange about peoples voting habits. I’m voting to make myself financially worse off to support someone like him who votes Conservative. Make of that what you will

Have you ever asked this chap whether he reads a newspaper, and if so, which one?

That could explain why ye votes against his own interests.

MayBee70

The guy who does maintenance work on my house who lives in sheltered accommodation and has a partner with ongoing health problems doesn’t vote Labour because it’s full of champagne socialists. Which probably sums up what’s strange about peoples voting habits. I’m voting to make myself financially worse off to support someone like him who votes Conservative. Make of that what you will

Same

Ramsey McDonald was viewed as a ^Champaign Socialist.

Maybe70- 13.32.- me,too.
I want the best for everyone, and if that's champagne, or a decent health service, then providing it's for all, then I'm happy to pay, although I'm more of an Italian red wine drinker myself.
Mamie, I fear that you are dicing with death living in France and not drinking their wine..

MayBee70

Well, my interpretation of a champagne socialist has always been someone who realises that they personally would be worse off financially under a Labour government but feel it is worth it if the majority of people have access to ether health care, schooling and housing. Having campaigned over the past few years with people from all parties ( excluding UKIP) I’ve found that most people want what’s best for the people of this country but just disagree about how the economy should be run and many believe ( imo wrongly) that Conservative economic policy is better.

Perhaps you could explain why a large proportion of the metropolitan elite in cities such as London vote Labour? They could be described as champagne socialist. If I still lived in London my house would now be worth £1.2 million and I'd still be voting Labour and so would my other friends who either live in London or the south and whose houses are worth more than mine.

Folks, where is the Monster Raving Loony Party when you need them,?

MayBee70 I've just reread my post and realise that I've misread yours. My sincere apologies.

Dinahmo

MayBee70 I've just reread my post and realise that I've misread yours. My sincere apologies.

That’s ok. I often confuse myself!! What does get to me is how terms like champagne socialist seem to stick in peoples minds and then they spout it out to justify their beliefs. I mean, what’s wrong with someone being well off but wanting other people to be housed, well fed, and well educated? And yet it’s thrown around as a disparaging term isn’t it.

Chocolatelovinggran we depend on Lidl for our foreign wine fix ?. We can get South African and South American wines there. Prosecco and Cava are in all supermarkets and quite popular.
It is much better than it used to be. Still can't get a decent curry round here though. ?

I feel the same as many on GN, I understand that we need capitalism which in itself is not bad.

I just want the safety net to be more secure and recognise and acknowledge different needs.

I always thought that the term 'champagne socialist' was a derisive term for left voting people who aren't working class and so couldn't possibly understand what the working class actually experience and need from a government. 'Do-gooders' who inflict their middle class values and beliefs on the working class.

I seem to recall from reading The Uses of Literacy many, many years ago that there was a certain scorn among the working classes for professionals, such as Health Visitors who tried to impose middle class ideas about child rearing which conflicted with inherited 'family wisdom'. They were generally ignored in favour of traditional ideas..

I have often wondered if that is what made Michael Gove's 'we've had enough of experts' such a powerful statement for many.

I suspect 'champagne socialists' are also regarded as class traitors by some of their middleclass peers.

It's not something I'd like to be called...