Champagne Socialist

I worked with a Champagne socialist 20 odd years ago ,she told us who was going to win the General election as she was friendly with Pauline Prescott and she had just bought her hat.
I agree with a lot of what Maizie D says and have known quite a few in my time, on both sides the line.

So do I GrannyGravy13. The only party I have ever belonged to was the SDP. When they merged with the Liberals I could not see the 'Social' side of the party so didn't join that or any other.

This is from an article by the Lib Dems:

There is no general answer to the question of how much government intervention is enough, or how big the state should be. This is because of the need to deal both with market failure and with government failure, and because the appropriate level of state involvement, and the size of the state, varies so widely over time and across areas of activity. Differences of opinion over this question lie at the root of the disagreements between ‘economic liberals’ and ‘social liberals’. Economic liberals (sometimes called ‘classical liberals’) emphasise the dangers of an over-mighty state, and prefer small and non-interventionist government, while ‘social liberals’ place more stress on the need for state action, for example to redress inequality or tackle climate change, and therefore prefer more active and interventionist government, constrained primarily through decentralisation and restraints such as a written constitution. In reality, though, individual liberals’ views range over a broad spectrum rather being separated into two firm camps.

Is it better that the argument is within a party rather than between two parties who each have very extreme wings ... or not?

Re: Sun 15-May-22 20:52:14

I felt it was said very tongue in cheek Maizie and allowed the conversation to wend gently through the doubts and difficulties some have with the parties at present. I imagine we all know what "Champagne Socialist" means when used as a criticism.

I feel grateful to GG13 for the, for once, easy conversation about the difficult topic of politics. Especially, with the extremes of view at the moment.

Whitewavemark2

nightowl

I don’t like champagne very much but I believe everyone has a right to drink it if they want to. I am a socialist, and I most definitely do not support the capitalist system. The results of that system are what we have now - an ever increasing gulf between the richest and poorest. I believe in a strong welfare state and nationalisation of key industries and services - but I am definitely not a communist and actually something of a libertarian. A mass of contradictions me.

So what do you mean by socialist? Do you believe in a different form of economic system?

Sorry Whitewave I have been out. If I had to categorise myself (as I said, I’m a mass of contradictions) I would say I’m a democratic socialist. So I believe in a mixed economy, but more state ownership, more workers’ control of industries and workplaces, far less emphasis on profit, and more on investment for the good of all. I don’t want a revolution, although there have been times I thought nothing else would do (I sometimes think it now to be honest when I look at the shower of corrupt and self-serving individuals who are in government). I would like to see change brought about through democratic means but I have to concede that the British people are too conservative (small c) to ever allow anything too radical.

Thanks for your reply.

I suspect that most on GN who would be filled with horror to call themselves socialists, do however, think that there is a place for public ownership of things like water and transport.

We also must be aware of the urgent need to find sustainable forms of energy, and it might at this point in our economic life be sensible to “encourage” the energy suppliers by pursuing this aim rather than further carbon recovery to be poured into our creaking environment.

I’m sure also that most GNs support the public ownership of our health system and would like this to be supported energetically by the state.

We all have a bit of socialism in our hearts and minds I think.

My OP was tongue in cheek

I think to précis and borrow Jo Cox’s words that there is more that unites us than divides us

GrannyGravy13

My OP was tongue in cheek

I think to précis and borrow Jo Cox’s words that ^there is more that unites us than divides us^

Which doesn't mean that people can't make serious comments about the term.

I think that the very fact that 'champagne socialist' is a derisory term displays a deep division in the general public.
It annoys me so much that one's capacity to 'care' should be measured by one's financial status, with it apparently diminishing the further one gets away from the authentic experience of being 'working class'.

Can I make it clear that the foregoing applies only to people who are left of centre.

DaisyAnne Your mention of the SDP reminded me of a public meeting in Lambeth after its formation. Shirley Williams spoke and, as useful she was eloquent and concise in her speech. A brilliant woman and it's a shame that there aren't more like her now.

I went to various conferences they had Dinahmo and had a chance to listen to all four in fringe meetings. I rarely hear as knowledgable or intelligent thinking these days except, perhaps, from ex MPs and ex PMs. It seems that no candidate, MP or Minister may talk at a level above the lowest level of knowledge of those listening - and yet we expect them to know their subject. Or at least, I do.

Dinahmo

DaisyAnne Your mention of the SDP reminded me of a public meeting in Lambeth after its formation. Shirley Williams spoke and, as useful she was eloquent and concise in her speech. A brilliant woman and it's a shame that there aren't more like her now.

Shirley Williams was fantastic and should have become Prime Minister.

In the 1983 general election the Liberal SDP Alliance won 25.4% of the votes but only 23 seats, instead of the 165 seats which would have been allocated by proportional representation.

Many years later, when she was President of the Liberal Democrats, Shirley Williams came to canvass in our constituency and my OH spent an afternoon with her knocking on doors. She was then in her eighties but still had enormous energy and enthusiasm.

Well I'm a good old fashioned socialist with working class roots who probably could afford the champagne if I wanted to. There's a lot of rubbish on this thread about who socialists are or were. There have always been right wing working class people. There have always been well off middle and upper class socialists. The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists describes the situation so well and such views still exist.
Most of us were raised in a socialist society. It's a society that has shifted massively to the right in the last 20 years and socialists would like to see the system move to the left and provide the support it once did.

Whitewavemark2

My favourite champagne type is Camelford Valley.

I could quaff that very happily, and I’m loyal to my birthplace.

I've just seen it in the shop here and bought a bottle Whitewavemark2. Well, I am on holiday! It had better be good!

??

They sell it in Waitrose.