My teenage daughters frequently tell me of incidents at school.
A friend with short hair called "trans" as an insult and other older slurs I wont repeat, girls wearing trousers the same, girls who dont shave body hair or wear makeup the same.
One girl who uses a cubicle to change instead of the communal area had frequent banging on the door and shouting that she was hiding a (think rude word for penis). She is just shy.
Teenagers, some gay, some not, bullied as too masculine or feminine presenting and too different to be accepted into the rather rigid and narrow constraints in what is fashionable.
It's a wide spread issue: www.beyondbullying.com/transphobic-bullying
Far too many LGBTQ being bullied in secondary school, others bullied as LGBTQ when they aren't, or because their friend is or because they are supportive to LGBTQ.
Yet my son at university reports nothing of the sort. He says people are all very friendly and accepting towards LGBTQ.
So my question is this:
What can we do as adults to prevent our minor impressionable youth from bullying someone over a perceived difference that has nothing to do with their character or worth?
Can we conduct our conversations in private and public in such a way that it is clear that bullying someone for their gender identity, their friends or allies is never acceptable?
Can we help to prevent something that damages mental health and physical health over time and sadly sometimes causes suicide?
What are your thoughts?
It's strange, then, that one set of opinions is considered to be hateful etc, despite the opposing set being the ones actually likely to harm people and often including threats.
FarNorth
It's strange, then, that one set of opinions is considered to be hateful etc, despite the opposing set being the ones actually likely to harm people and often including threats.
What specificly are you talking about here?
It reminds me of those who used to say it was acceptable to be afraid of and lash out at Muslims because Muslim extremists exist.
Also it doesn't tie in well with the idea that trans people are a tiny minority because a tiny minority of a tiny minority is certainly not worth any consideration or fear right?
Yet unfortunately children and adults are being verbally and physically abused for not conforming to gender norms.... and they aren't even trans
So why is that happening then amd why will no one taking responsibility?
Because if trans people are responsible for other trans people behaving badly
It logically follows
That gender critical feminists are all responsible for gender critical feminists behaving badly
Or.... can we do away with that idea?
FarNorth
In my view, telling children and young people that puberty blockers are harmless, or that 'gender confirming' surgery will benefit them, is irresponsible and harmful but that is totally acceptable in most social media.
So I wouldn't take the word of social media for what is good or not.
True FN, and seeing posts on social media where posters try to justify those practices , instead of outright agreement that those practices are dangerous makes it very confusing for children and young people.
What is really weird ro me and I've noticed it a bit here and there...
Is that a lot of people carry a healthy set of principles and morals but never actually apply them to themselves.
I'm the sort of person who, if you are polite to me, I will be polite to you even if yesterday they were calling me a seabeast or something... but others are the opposite end and create justification out of literally nothing if they have to
I will never understand it. Truly
Trans people aren’t responsible for anyone behaving badly except those trans who do.
Trans people suffer from the bad behaviour of a few trans, and the supporters of those few, sadly sometimes nowadays comprising those calling themselves by various ‘feminist’ titles.
This bad behaviour reflects negatively on the image of all trans.
It is quite obvious that those perpetrating the bad behaviour, care little or nothing for the impact on trans who wish nothing more than a peaceful life, not in the public eye.
What has that got to do with transphobic bullying, VS? Was it a personal dig at someone, or just a bit of late night musing?
I'm specifically talking about social media. I didn't say anything about anyone responsible for others' behaviour.
Gender critical posts stating facts are deemed hateful while posts expressing actual hate are allowed to stand.
The tiny minority is getting the whole of society changed to pretend that biological sex means nothing.
Doodledog
What has that got to do with transphobic bullying, VS? Was it a personal dig at someone, or just a bit of late night musing?
Musing mostly
FarNorth
I'm specifically talking about social media. I didn't say anything about anyone responsible for others' behaviour.
Gender critical posts stating facts are deemed hateful while posts expressing actual hate are allowed to stand.
The tiny minority is getting the whole of society changed to pretend that biological sex means nothing.
Your beliefs are protected, I'd fight for you to keep them and express them...
But it's people using slurs who are the issue
People that would verbally or physically abuse someone innocent for using the toilet
As well as the victims of men pretending to be women to get access to female spaces, the people who have suffered since Stonewall hijacked the trans cause seem to me to fall into three categories:
Transpeople who don’t want to make a fuss, but just live in peace. It will take them a long time to roll back the damage.
Women such as Kathleen Stock, who were hounded out of their careers for daring to speak out and insist that sex is immutable.
Children who have been sacrificed on the alter of trans ideology. The ones who wear binders, the confused self-harmers, the ones given hormones and surgery, and the ones who are bullied.
Stonewall, meanwhile, charges good money (often taxpayers’ money) for entry to its Diversity scheme, and their workers’ salaries are secured.
doodledog
Don't you think that is a bit one sided?
Especially given the topic of this thread
Can you not see the problem with that?
It may be one-sided, but it’s what I think. Feel free to tell me why you disagree? If you can do it without personal digs then so much the better.
Of course I can do it without personal digs, do you think that's hard?
One day, when this is all sorted out, I want to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
That guides all my thinking
Well so do I, and I guess so do most people. It’s just that I think that allowing men to take women’s rights and encouraging children to damage their bodies is the problem and not the solution. That’s the difference.
One sided doodledog
The view from the fence is much more interesting and will find the right solution that angry words won't
VS do you really think that allowing men to take women’s rights and encouraging children to damage their bodies are good ideas?
Being a spectator from the fence isn't going to help anyone.
Farnorth the logical conclusion from the information available so far, is that trans women are women.
People making mistakes, sexist bullying, extreme views.... we are not going to fix that on social media
No matter how much of our personal time and energy we are willing to put into arguing discussing it
We just take responsibility one at a time until things get better and sensible people can be heard because the shouting stopped
Do you seriously think that you are on the fence, VS? From where I’m standing that is not the case, but maybe I’m wrong. What aspects of the debate give you cause for concern, and make you doubt that Stonewall’s agenda is innocuous?
Oh, and where have I used angry words?
doodledog you really have to realise that if I were not making a general comment about the situation, I would actually just say so...
There is nothing between the lines, there is no point looking there you will only find what you want to find and I will just say, that's your perception, not my reality.
I'm off to bed, sleep well
What are you on about?
You said you were on the fence. I said it didn’t look like that to me, but to give you the benefit of the doubt I asked where your doubts were.
That has absolutely nothing to do with perception or reality.
VS
Don't you think that is a bit one sided?
That’s the funniest statement I’ve seen.
VioletSky, especially considering this.
Farnorth the logical conclusion from the information available so far, is that trans women are women.
Logically and biologically, transwomen are male.
The only reason they can claim the word women relates back to 2004 when the word women, which has always meant female was hijacked by men (which would identify someone as male).
Despite this seizure misappropriation if nomenclature, Trans Women Are Transwomen and still remain male.
This hijacking of the word has enabled men to bully AHF in a variety of ways, whilst accusing anyone who objects to the bullying, hounding out of jobs, threats to life, removal of safe spaces for females, cheating in sport etc. etc. of ‘transphobia’.
A phobia is an irrational fear, and the fear caused by the above bullying activities of a few vociferous TAF is anything but irrational.
Sitting on the fence and refusing to condemn such behaviour is not logical. That’s reality, not perception.
the logical conclusion from the information available so far, is that trans women are women.
I don't know why anyone would think that is a logical conclusion - especially as there's now no need for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria or anything else before a man can take on the identity of transwoman.
Man = male person
Transwoman = male person
Man = male person
Transwoman = male person
That’s reality, not perception.
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