First arrests under the New Police Act preventing freedom of speech

It shows no respect to arrest people for peaceful protest.

I hope charges are dropped Saetana.

My personal view is that I feel that unlimited freedom of speech should not be allowed. I don't agree with those who claim that people need to accept being offended. Some forms of harrassment, such as racial and sexual, are already against the law. I also recognise that there's a very shaky dividing line between expressing an opinion which offends people and bullying/harrassment.

I'm unclear about whether these arrests were for harrassment or breaching the peace in some way. If somebody expresses an unpopular opinion, he/she should expect a reaction from other members of the public. My understanding is that's what has happened here. I think the police were correct to move the people for their own protection. I can just imagine the reaction if somebody had been seriously hurt while the police looked on and did nothing. Nevertheless, charging somebody for expressing an inappropriate/unpopular opinion seems heavy-handed.

I guess we'll have to see what happens.

It was once a deeply unpopular opinion to express the fact that people of the same sex should have the right to marriage. It was once a deeply unpopular opinion that rape in marriage should be made illegal, should the people expressing those views have been arrested for their own protection. After all they should have expected a reaction from the public to their unpopular opinions.

@Zoejory,
You used a news report dating from over two and a half years ago to illustrate your point, just a tad outdated!
You may be a scouser, but just how many home games for whichever team you support do you actually go to?
Also, the report you chose does actually state that the Everton fan was welcomed in the Kop!
I was merely pointing out to Avalon that she had chosen the wrong two teams to illustrate her point!
At the last derby match I was able to attend, at Goodison, a young woman tripped and twisted her ankle badly about thirty minutes before kick off. She was carried away to receive first aid by two strapping young lads, one wearing a red and white scarf, the other blue and white!

Based only on my knowledge of watching police interceptors, and other such programmes, I have seen the police move someone along, with many clear warnings that they need to do as they're told.

It is only if they refuse, and begin to actively refuse by swearing, pushing, ignoring, that they are warned that they will be arrested.

Galaxy

It was once a deeply unpopular opinion to express the fact that people of the same sex should have the right to marriage. It was once a deeply unpopular opinion that rape in marriage should be made illegal, should the people expressing those views have been arrested for their own protection. After all they should have expected a reaction from the public to their unpopular opinions.

No, they shouldn't have been arrested, but if they were being beaten up in public, I would expect the police to intervene and possibly move the protester for his/her own protection.

Is your right to free speech enumerated anywhere in your constitution?

growstuff

Galaxy

It was once a deeply unpopular opinion to express the fact that people of the same sex should have the right to marriage. It was once a deeply unpopular opinion that rape in marriage should be made illegal, should the people expressing those views have been arrested for their own protection. After all they should have expected a reaction from the public to their unpopular opinions.

No, they shouldn't have been arrested, but if they were being beaten up in public, I would expect the police to intervene and possibly move the protester for his/her own protection.

But wouldn't you expect the ones who were doing the beating up to be arrested too?

I would expect those using violence to be arrested.

Maizie Yes, I would. I genuinely don't know the exact circumstances, which is why I asked and haven't come to a definitive conclusion. I'd like to know what these people have been charged with. As ever, there seem to be a number of different versions circulating and people have jumped to conclusions.

With the aim to provide an unified framework for the UN system to address the issue globally, the United Nations Strategy and Plan of Action on Hate Speech defines hate speech as…“any kind of communication in speech, writing or behaviour, that attacks or uses pejorative or discriminatory language with reference to a person or a group on the basis of who they are, in other words, based on their religion, ethnicity, nationality, race, colour, descent, gender or other identity factor.”
Could someone please explain the difference between 'freedom of speech' in this case and 'hate speech' as defined above by the U.N.?

I think that's a terrible definition of hate speech if that's any help. With no concept of the grey areas that might be within that statement.

growstuff

Maizie Yes, I would. I genuinely don't know the exact circumstances, which is why I asked and haven't come to a definitive conclusion. I'd like to know what these people have been charged with. As ever, there seem to be a number of different versions circulating and people have jumped to conclusions.

I saw footage of exactly what happened in Edinburgh. It was a young man in his early 20s perhaps. He shouted at Andrew Windsor not sure what he said. At least two men in the crowd set upon him (the young man was small) and knocked him to the ground. The police then stepped in and arrested him. Leaving those inflicting violence free to go.

I expect WWM2 it was the easiest option for the police. I think he yelled that Andrew was a dirty old man. I imagine a lot of people agree with him but he said it in a crowd who were paying their respects to the Queen and tolerated Andrew as a consequence which they wouldn’t normally do.

It's the easiest option for the police to do lots of things that doesnt mean it's the right thing.

Very true Galaxy as we have seen so many times.

I am afraid I lost faith in the police many years ago. Some are ok but I’m wary.

I think his arrest was for the wrong reasons, but do you think arresting those who attacked him for his right to free speech would have been the best option for him?
I think they should have arrested all three, for the sake of safety or causing a breach of the peace.

Surely they could have just separated them?

Galaxy

I think that's a terrible definition of hate speech if that's any help. With no concept of the grey areas that might be within that statement.

I guess the key issue is identity. So it's hate speech if you call somebody names based on who they are, but not for their behaviour (I think). Therefore, heckling PA for his alleged behaviour would not be hate speech. I agree it's a terrible definition and doesn't really address the issues.

MissAdventure

Surely they could have just separated them?

Well, yes, that sounds like the sensible and proportionate thing to do.

25Avalon

I am afraid I lost faith in the police many years ago. Some are ok but I’m wary.

Then I sincerely hope you never need to rely on them for anything...

Juggernaut

@Zoejory,
You used a news report dating from over two and a half years ago to illustrate your point, just a tad outdated!
You may be a scouser, but just how many home games for whichever team you support do you actually go to?
Also, the report you chose does actually state that the Everton fan was welcomed in the Kop!
I was merely pointing out to Avalon that she had chosen the wrong two teams to illustrate her point!
At the last derby match I was able to attend, at Goodison, a young woman tripped and twisted her ankle badly about thirty minutes before kick off. She was carried away to receive first aid by two strapping young lads, one wearing a red and white scarf, the other blue and white!

I've been to Liverpool matches since the age of 5 when I wanted to go with my father. I've been going ever since. Season ticket holder. Many many years now.

There is only one report from a couple of years ago because it was so rare. It explains why the guy was there. Twitter trolls were up in arms.

This romanticising of football fans is not really relevant nor true. Most are lovely. Some are horrendous. I could type out some of the chants that I've heard over the years which would have most of us clutching our pearls. We had an incident back in April when Everton fans smashed up screens and toilets at Anfield. No love lost amongst many .

Liverpool does have a better relationship with Everton than it does with Manchester United but that's about it. Usually if a someone proclaims they are a Toffee, the Reds just tend to look sympathetic.

This isn't relevant to the thread so I shall leave

growstuff

MissAdventure
Surely they could have just separated them?

Well, yes, that sounds like the sensible and proportionate thing to do.

I agree, if it could be guaranteed that others would not have got involved. Who knows what might have happened?

Blondiescot when an off duty policeman rides on your tail, tries to cut you up, pulls you over 1/2 mile later and says your boyfriend made a rude sign and if he doesn’t apologise you will be booked, then you become very wary. When they take an hour to come after you’ve been assaulted leaving you locking yourself in a football ground in fear,giving the perpetrator chance to escape, then you adopt a different viewpoint.

Not all police are like this thank goodness but some are.