The Brexit Effect

That sounds very reasonable Katie59. I'm just not sure everyone cares about whether we eat or can get to work. They were talking about projected job losses for next year this morning. I'm afraid I was doing other things and can't remember the figures. It didn't sound good though.

Did you watch Question Time last night (and last few weeks too). The audience is chosen to represent voting in last election- so Tory supporters are chosen in larger numbers.

Last night, it was so clear that the tide has turned. A Tory weighed audience that burst into loud clapping when a woman asked if it is time to reconsider Brexit. Just amazing.

Over 60% of people now say Brexit was a huge mistake. Most of the rest are 'don't knows'. A tiny proportion of people now have not changed their mind. And for very clear and obvious reasons- Brexit is causing huge damage and massive pain to this amazing country.

Yes, QT was interesting last night Fleurpepper, especially that articulate woman in the audience who listed all the things which has got worse (NHS, education, trade, immigration etc., etc.,) and said that based on the number of U turns which this Tory administration has made, perhaps it is time they U turned on the Single Market. ( Can't remember her exact words, but like most of the audience, I cheered). Even the BBC is beginning to recognise that Brexit is, has been, and will be an unmitigated social and economic disaster.

Whitewavemark2

I am of the opinion that the line of sufficient people willing to give the SM/CU consideration has been crossed.

The main issue is of course the right wing media.

How do we deal with that?

I haven’t a clue.

I really hope your opinion is right and mine wrong.

The main issue is of course the right wing media.
How do we deal with that?
I haven’t a clue.

Me neither.

The dominant influence of the right wing press has long been a serious problem for the UK.

These newspapers are or have been owned and controlled by tax dodging billionaires, including foreign citizens, like Rupert Murdoch, pornographers like Richard Desmond and tax exiles like the Barclay brothers.

What is good for them is not good for Britain yet they have enormous power to influence the attitudes and voting patterns of their readers.

Margaret Thatcher waived the monopoly rules to allow Rupert Murdoch to own The Times, The Sunday Times, The Sun and The News of The World .

As a result no UK Prime Minister has won a GE without his support since Harold Wilson won in 1974.

We could have saved a lot of money by abolishing general elections and just asking Rupert Murdoch (an Australian) who he wanted to be PM.

Of course the Murdoch press is not as far to the right as The Daily Mail, now our best selling "newspaper" although Wikipaedia no longer categorises The Daily Mail as a newspaper because it estimates that at least 70% of its reports are untrue.

Yet its readers continue to buy it - maybe because they are interested in royalty, or soap stars or pop stars or sports stars or any other so-called "celebs" caught out in scandals and while they are lapping up that lovely gossip their political views are being directed further and further to the right.

Of course the Murdoch press is not as far to the right as The Daily Mail, now our best selling "newspaper" although Wikipaedia no longer categorises The Daily Mail as a newspaper because it estimates that at least 70% of its reports are untrue.

Now how do I tell a dear friend of mine this?

This is so painful to listen to. And worse, it seems some on GN would probably say just the same

fb.watch/gB5avmT5l0/

There is no mystery what leavers voted for, they voted for history - Great Britain a time where we didn’t need foreigners, or have to obey their rules.
It’s gradually dawning on them the world has moved on, that does not mean there is going to be any changes soon, the current problem is the ERG are running the government.

Never mind the right wing media it’s those right wing Tories that need to be demonized and soon too.

A blanket statement there Katie.
Yes the world has moved on (it always does). I opted Brexit to open up the UK to ties with say the Commonwealth. Not to be hampered and held back by EU protectionism which stymies growth in Europe.

Not to be hampered and held back by EU protectionism which stymies growth in Europe.

Would you like to explain what you mean by this, Ug?

Well Brexit hasn’t exactly helped growth has it? As for having ties with Commonwealth - what ties? We tried that before, it was called the Empire. How anyone thought we’d be better off out of the biggest free trade organisation on our doorstep still baffles me. Plus all those saying the EU would collapse without the U.K. as everyone was so envious of us- hmm.

Urmstongran

A blanket statement there Katie.
Yes the world has moved on (it always does). I opted Brexit to open up the UK to ties with say the Commonwealth. Not to be hampered and held back by EU protectionism which stymies growth in Europe.

How is that going then?😄

It’s a blanket statement, but the “we don’t need foreigners” comment runs through all the reasons for leaving.
As for ties with the Commonwealth, they moved on years ago, trading with their close neighbours

I'm just intrigued by this growth stymying protectionism...🤔 I'd love Ug to explain what it means.

Of course the likes of Rees-Mogg will never accept responsability. He was never able to find any credible advantage provided by Brexit- same as many here on GN who have been asked, again, and some more, for just 1, or a list- but none has ever appeared. Carney and all financial experts clearly warned that Brexit would cause Sterling to fall, and that it would break the UK financial sector.

www.lbc.co.uk/news/rees-mogg-slams-former-bank-of-england-chief-carney-for-brexit-claim/

Denying that Brexit has anything to do with falling living standards and crumbling infrastructure is serious delusion.

varian

We could have saved a lot of money by abolishing general elections and just asking Rupert Murdoch (an Australian) who he wanted to be PM.

Indeed!

What puzzles me is why the ordinary 'man in the street' voter, who like many, struggles from day to day to keep head above water - just about managing - working day in day out, thinks that individuals like Rees-Mogg, Johnson, etc (I use those two as an example because they are the more flamboyant type of politician who manage to somehow engage us) actually have any concept of, or care about, their lives. Many see Johnson as a 'man of the people' - how? How can a man from a privileged background, a man who has on occasions written about the working class as if they are a separate species, be one of them, or us?

Yet the likes of Starmer, even Corbyn, are considered to be Champaine Socialists - 'elites' whose commitment to socialist principles renders them imposters because (presumably) they live in a modest house in a 'nice' neighbourhood.

It doesn't make sense to me.

How has the media managed to convince some / many that those coming from a background of considerable wealth and privilege are the true representatives of the nation, and that the individuals who declare they want a more equitable society for all are their enemies?

To be clear, I'm not a Corbyn fan nor, at the moment, particularly impressed with Starmer though I do think he has a tad more integrity than many (on both sides of the house).

... just rambling a bit here, I guess.

Of course we need foreigners! Not just to trade with but to attract here as skilled and educated workers for our depleted workforce. Many asylum seekers fit the bill and should be enabled to work, not detained waiting for a dysfunctional Home Office to process their asylum claim while Braverman describes them in inflammatory terms designed to heap up the racist vote for the Tories.

A friend has recently given me many back copies of the ‘This England’ magazine. Very, very pro Brexit and they make England look like a total Shangri-la. Really beautiful little villages, lots of royal history, lots of breathtaking old buildings. Anyone who read that would have voted for Brexit with no hesitation.

nanna8

A friend has recently given me many back copies of the ‘This England’ magazine. Very, very pro Brexit and they make England look like a total Shangri-la. Really beautiful little villages, lots of royal history, lots of breathtaking old buildings. Anyone who read that would have voted for Brexit with no hesitation.

Why?

I live in England, it has beautiful little villages, fabulous landscapes, lots of royal history and superb old buildings.

It has lots of other things, too...

None of which had anything to do with the EU, nor was it threatened in any way by the EU.

I voted Remain. I have absolutely no comprehension as to why the above should persuade anyone to vote Leave.

Katie59

There is no mystery what leavers voted for, they voted for history - Great Britain a time where we didn’t need foreigners, or have to obey their rules.
It’s gradually dawning on them the world has moved on, that does not mean there is going to be any changes soon, the current problem is the ERG are running the government.

Never mind the right wing media it’s those right wing Tories that need to be demonized and soon too.

When was that time Katie59? If that was what people voted for then they missed their history lessons at school.

Whatever they voted for it was a fantasy. They have now found that the reality they, and only they, have created has just made life even more difficult than it ever needed to be.

Why? So time would stand still and England would go back 60 years? I don’t know, I wasn’t there, I didn’t vote.

nanna8

Why? So time would stand still and England would go back 60 years? I don’t know, I wasn’t there, I didn’t vote.

And yet this current government, the get brexit done brigade, are changing the Britain that I ( I think of myself as left leaning but very much a traditionalist) love before my very eyes. And no one seems to care. That’s what I don’t understand. They’ve even most probably destroyed the Union.

nanna8

Why? So time would stand still and England would go back 60 years? I don’t know, I wasn’t there, I didn’t vote.

But you don't need to go back 60 years to find those things.

In fact, where I live, 60 years ago there would have been smoke and grime and coal mines and huge coke works as far as the eye could see from the top of any of the many hills we have. As far as beauty is concerned it's far lovelier now than it was 60 years ago.

OTOH, 60 years ago lots of the locals had jobs... maybe that's what they were after when they voted to leave the EU...

When the ( mainly I would imagine) Conservative governments let British industry decline which resulted in people in many areas losing their main form of employment nothing was done to replace those jobs. Vote leave managed to persuade people that it was all the fault of the EU although, strangely enough when I have been in post industrial areas any form of regeneration ( eg The Eden Project) has been financed quite heavily by the EU. And yet the Conservative government get away with their little soundbites eg levelling up and the electorate believe them. I’ve given up trying to understand it.