Petition : *Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex*

Who is expressing fear and of what?

Could you please explain to me what you think the phrase about gender assumptions means, because linked with the further statement that doctors are not trained to deal with trans patients I think it means that the staff assumed the patient could not be pregnant because he was trans so did not treat him properly.

I'm not 'spinning anything. I think this case is tragic.

Yes, the staff assumed the patient wasn't pregnant, as men don't get pregnant and they were told that they were dealing with a man. They got it wrong, but that's not the same as 'ignoring him because he was fat and trans'.

Projection

Am off for a walk in the rain

Laters

VioletSky

Projection

Am off for a walk in the rain

Laters

Sharp exit.

Best done after making an unsupportable statement

And I was going to ask projection of what and by whom.

Lathyrus

VioletSky
Projection

Am off for a walk in the rain

Laters
Sharp exit.

Best done after making an unsupportable statement.
Yes indeed!👏👏

VioletSky

Fearing what one doesn't understand is an evolutional dead end on a lot of topics

Understandable though I suppose

Back to the Confucius impressions again?

Ok, grasshopper, what about this one?

She who has an obsession with gender dysphoria will regularly jump to the wrong conclusion.

Doodledog

*Could you please explain to me what you think the phrase about gender assumptions means, because linked with the further statement that doctors are not trained to deal with trans patients I think it means that the staff assumed the patient could not be pregnant because he was trans so did not treat him properly.*

I'm not 'spinning anything. I think this case is tragic.

Yes, the staff assumed the patient wasn't pregnant, as men don't get pregnant and they were told that they were dealing with a man. They got it wrong, but that's not the same as 'ignoring him because he was fat and trans'.

So if they thought they were dealing with a man why did they administer a pregnancy test? Do they do that to men?

No need to answer by the way. It's obvious.
But the squirming to excuse the inexcusable is fascinating.
Especially as you haven't explained what "gender assumptions" means.
They assumed a transman couldn't be pregnant.
They did a test but left him without treatment
His baby died.
You are trying to blame him for a failure of care.
It's disgusting.

So if they thought they were dealing with a man why did they administer a pregnancy test? Do they do that to men?
Well, exactly. Doesn't this call the 'gender confusion' into doubt? I don't know the details of the case (as I suspect is true of you too), and as I keep saying I think it is very sad.

However, as long as people get in a spin when someone 'misgenders' them, is it surprising that there are times when the gender fascism backfires?

I would say that from what little I know of the details the hospital was culpable, and as I have repeatedly said, I think the case is very sad. I also think that there are mitigating factors - it's not as though the nurse left a patient alone simply because of being fat and trans. It was a mistake, which happened because the patient was making a concerted effort to 'present as' a man, even having medical records changed to assist the delusion. It backfired, and I repeat - the results were terrible.

What do I think gender confusion means? How about 'being unsure about the difference between biological sex and societally-determined norms'?

Genuinely feel amazing after that

Im not really obsessed with anything

There has been 4 trans threads in 4 days

And they all turn a bit nasty

I guess I find that interesting watching people damage their own arguments

I can highly recommend a good walk to blow the cobwebs away

Do a bit of self reflection

Etc

Can someone explain what actually happened here. Did the patient get a pregnancy test too late because they presented as a man and their medical records had been altered to substantiate this, or were the pregnancy test results showing that they were pregnant ignored?

He was 32 years old living in the US

He had lost his insurance and had been unable to afford his hormone treatments and blood pressure medication

On arrival in hospital he told staff that he was transgender, that he had been off his testosterone medication for some time but still hadn't had a period, that he had done a home pregnancy test and that he had peed himself, which is a common thought when waters break. He was in a lot of pain.

The hospital ordered a pregnancy test and did nothing further from what I have read.

When he was finally examined it was determined that he was in labour and the umbilicle cord had had descended into the birth canal. He was taken fir an emergency section but it was too late.

He did everything right, he wasn't listened to or considered because he was obese and looks like a man.

It doesn't matter if his medical notes say male, what matters is the symptoms and listening to the patient.

What do I think gender confusion means? How about 'being unsure about the difference between biological sex and societally-determined norms
But the phrase used was not gender confusion but gender assumptions.
The staff assumed certain things and failed to treat the man. The baby died because of that. It is tragic but saying so shouldn't absolve anyone.

Thanks VioletSky I really don't understand why anyone would want to blame this poor man for this tragedy.

No, me either... glorianny

It looks as though the US Insurance-based system is to blame, then. Yes, someone should have realised that the patient was in labour, but (to me at least) it is unsurprising that they didn't, given that so much trouble had been taken to disguise the fact that this was possible.

The US medical system is very much centred around an ability to pay, and if this person couldn't afford blood pressure medication the chances are this would be true of medical insurance too.

I'm not making excuses. I would need to know what would happen in that State if a woman presenting as such had come in in similar circumstances before knowing what to think, really.

Thank you VS, so were the results of the pregnancy test done in the hospital that were positive ignored or did the hospital wait for those results before carrying out an examination?

From the information you've given I see nothing to suggest that the patient being obese had anything to do with it.

Yes the patient being obese did have something to do with it as that would disguise a pregnancy bump. So what couldn't be seen with the eye should have been looked for by other means

Oh, and yes, the phrase was 'gender assumptions' - sorry about that.

Ok, how about 'thinking that a preference for particular societally-determined actions and appearances is indicative of the sex of an individual, as opposed to their hormones, gametes or sex organs.'?

We all know a pregnancy test takes less than a minute

No idea what is the point?
Mollygo, you obviously have a big problem with men, I don’t, I have sons and male members in my family who are great people, not awful people quite the reverse. I’ve met some very fierce women who are man haters and men that are bullying and are predatory , but don’t class all people the same because of the few.

I see, but that could happen with any obese female patient couldn't it.

VioletSky

Yes the patient being obese did have something to do with it as that would disguise a pregnancy bump. So what couldn't be seen with the eye should have been looked for by other means

It is possible for bumps to be disguised. The daughter of a friend of mine went into labour without realising she was pregnant.

I still think we would need more details about the fee system and about what actually happened to draw conclusions. If the patient had gone to reception and said 'I am a transman, who has had unprotected sex with a man in the last 9 months and as such I might be pregnant, and here is my insurance card' then there is definitely a case to be made that the hospital was negligent. If, OTOH, the introduction was 'My name is Mr Smith. I have strong abdominal pains and urinary incontinence, and my insurance is not paid up', then there is a different case to answer, (given the way the American system works).

Yes of course it could happen to any pregnancy and not always because they are obese but that was the factor here

And the patient stated that pregnancy was possible

I don't get why you guys are questioning this then? You believe a trans man is a woman, and the patient stated that they were trans?

So surely you should be angry about this too?

The man in question was not identified so the details of this story are not actually coming from him in any kind of public way.

Possibly because after a devastating loss the hateful comments he would likely receive on top just aren't manageable