Petition : *Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex*

No - and why?

I find the whole argument (and weird obsession on GN) quite puzzling. We are all humans, just people. Unless you intend to inspect naked bodies - you have to accept that there are men who look like women and women who look like men amongst us. They already have the right to self identify their gender.

Get used to it, get over it - and move on.

Sometimes (about 1 in 1000) babies are born with 'ambiguous' genitalia, traditionally brought up as female. How would your petition deal with them?

Just curious, where did you get that info from hetty58?

Hetty58 have you read any posts where it says people may not self identify their gender? If you read the posts, you will find the objection is not to whether somebody calls themselves a different gender from their sex, but what they do with that claim.
If you are of the opinion that males cheating in female sport is okay for example, you will find like-minded people on these threads. If on the other hand, you think that using your claim to a gender for harmful purposes is not okay, then you will equally find like-minded people on these threads.
If you don’t want to read the posts, from either group, then move on.

Sometimes (about 1 in 1000) babies are born with 'ambiguous' genitalia, traditionally brought up as female. this statement is so out of date. We have DNA testing and a baby whose genitalia prevented its sex being reliably observed would be tested to see to which of the two sexes it belonged.

Rosie51, but it's not that simple, is it (although people on GN would like it to be)?

www.joshuakennon.com/the-six-common-biological-sexes-in-humans/

Hetty58 the Differences in Sexual Development that some people have are always associated with a female or male sex.

The very small minority of people with DSDs are not the ones seeking to be recognised as the opposite sex.

FarNorth, and it's a huge problem for GN folk because?

Hetty58 Yes it really is that simple. There are not six sexes, that is a fact. Turner syndrome only occurs in females, Klinefelter syndrome only occurs in males, xyy only occurs in males, xxxy only occurs in males. So those along with the normal xx and xy of females and males covers his "six common biological sexes" I really cannot recommend Professor Robert Winston, a leading world expert on sex and fertility, enough who will tell you there are absolutely two sexes and it is impossible to change from one to the other.
If you are so certain there are more than two sexes can you link to where their gametes have been identified, as we know males produce small motile gametes (sperm) and females produce large immotile gametes (ova). That some people do not have healthy functioning reproductive systems does not invalidate the science. Just as someone being born with one or both eyes blind does not mean that humans aren't a species with two seeing eyes. Nature has malfunctions, but the binary of sex is ever present.

Hetty58

FarNorth, and it's a huge problem for GN folk because?

Why is the fact of only two immutable sexes such a problem to science deniers?

Hetty58 Joshua Kenton, the author of the article you quoted, is an expert? in financial and investing matters. He writes blog pieces about lots of different subjects, e.g. religion, philosophy, the surrogate birth of his two children. He has no in-depth knowledge of human biology, as, imo, is evident from that piece. Wouldn’t you rather believe someone like Professor Winston than a non-expert on this matter? I know I would and do.

Hetty58

FarNorth, and it's a huge problem for GN folk because?

It's a problem for the women in prisons who are getting raped.
It's a problem for rape victims who cannot find refuge in single-sex spaces.
it's a problem for women traumatised by rape and sexual assault who cannot get intimate medical care from someone of the same sex.
It's a problem for every women who loses a place in work, education, or other aspects of life to a man who self IDs.
It's a problem for every woman injured by having to compete in contact sports against men who ID as women.
It's a problem for women whose own identity rests upon their biology to be forced to embrace an ideology that causes them painful emotional dissonance.
It's a problem for women who need personal care on a daily basis who do not wish that to be at the hands of a biological male.
It's a problem for homosexuals who are told that same-sex attraction is transphobic.
It's a problem for transmen and transwomen who are told that the painful transitions they went through is irrelevant.
It's a problem for safeguarding with respect to children when they have to share changing rooms and sleeping quarters with people, including adults, of the opposite sex.
It's a problem because if any man can self-ID for any reason then predatory males will be, and already are, taking advantage of this.

But I'm sure all the people who say self ID is fine, know this, and just think that the people hurt by this don't matter.

grannydarkhair, yes, he's just a writer - obviously. What interested me was the different examples of body, brain and genitalia being of different sexes.

Hugshelp, this is the same old thing, rehashed (yet again) about 'safe spaces' for women - and nothing has changed. They never existed, nobody checked.

So let's invite all males in Hetty?
Let's make life as unsafe as possible for girls and women?
Why would you think that was all right?

Absolutely Hugshelp, and I’d add it fundamentally matters that The Laws of the the land are rooted in Science and Rationality. Not in subjective, mood dependent feelings emotions or desires. A person can choose to believe they are a different gender but beliefs are not truths, they can believe they are a different sex but this is a blurring of fact and fiction. When (as they have) powerful sources become entrenched in postulating and promoting fallacy and illusion where exactly do you envision we are Moving on too Hetty 58.

Hetty58

grannydarkhair, yes, he's just a writer - obviously. What interested me was the different examples of body, brain and genitalia being of different sexes.

Hugshelp, this is the same old thing, rehashed (yet again) about 'safe spaces' for women - and nothing has changed. They never existed, nobody checked.

That's like saying lets make rape, burglary etc legal because it happens anyway.
Let's not try because we'll fail.
Your response is also the same old and also illogical.

Hetty58

FarNorth, and it's a huge problem for GN folk because?

I would have answered this, but H58 sounds so much like another poster that she/he already knows the answer.
1) Even if I’m wrong about the alias, H58 could have had the simple courtesy of reading the ample evidence of why females think harmful or discriminatory male, especially TW behaviour towards females is wrong.
2) Equally it’s a huge problem because those who endorse/ don’t condemn the behaviour above can’t see the damage it is doing to the majority of trans because people hear ‘transwomen’ and immediately think of the unacceptable behaviour.
H58, your posts imply IMO that you belong to group 2 above.

The UN special rapporteur on Violence against Women and Girls, Reem Alsalem, also thinks there are problems and is warning that the Scottish Government is making a mistake with its Gender Recognition Reform legislation as currently proposed.

"Reem Alsalem, the current special rapporteur on violence against women and girls, has condemned the Scottish government’s proposed reforms to the 2004 Gender Recognition Act. These present “potential risks to the safety of women” since they fail to “provide for any safeguarding measures to ensure that the procedure is not, as far as can be reasonably assured, abused by sexual predators and other perpetrators of violence”."

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d0021188-6b4d-11ed-b361-431d7dcc7c0e?shareToken=840f2b509e2aa8bc081ecafdca192880

Recently, the Scottish Government argued in court that the Equality Act already includes people with a GRC as being their desired sex.
If the judgement on that, due in a few months, agrees with them it is essential to clarify the Act as asked in this petition.

Here's how it's going in USA Hetty58 and likely to be the same in UK.
Nothing to worry about, you think?

www.childrenshospital.org/programs/gender-multispecialty-service

If anyone is concerned about the welfare of children they should be concerned FarNorth

Indeed Namsnanny.

In case you missed it, Hetty - patients from age 3 are in the "Gender Multispeciality Service".

I read in the paper today that a Green Party politician has been suspended for complaining when Eddie Izzard used the Ladies. At a Labour Party event. I have no doubt Eddie is of no danger to women but what about those Transwomen who are predators.

We are living in a totally mad world that couldn’t have been dreamt of 20 years ago. I despair.

Yes NanKate

She tweeted a link to the article and wrote: 'Powerful piece. ''The loss of women's rights starts with looking the other way for an Eddie Izzard and ends with a society that doesn't flinch at placing a male sex offender in jail with women.'' Serious issues we must discuss.

Well that’s typical of those who discriminate against females.
But even worse if they’re afraid to support females because of the backlash against themselves.
And Mr Izzard?
If you want to know how much respect he has for the ‘women’ he purports to be when it suits him, then this behaviour says it all.
He might as well say,
“I’m male, I can do what I like and you can’t stop me.”
And his ‘permission’ to himself’ will be avidly greeted by the TRA, the trans fans and the TW who do actually mean harm.
I can hear some of those, who have the same disregard for females on GN, silently gloating already.

It's not as if that's a far-fetched conclusion, either, as we already do have male sex offenders in women's prisons.