Petition : *Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex*

Rosie51

I don't think I've ever looked at a butch lesbian and not been able to tell she was just that, a 'butch' presenting woman. Not all 'butch' presenting women are lesbians incidentally.

I’m sure you’re right Rosie51. When I look at any female, however she acts or appears or dresses, my first instinct has never been to think, is she lesbian?

Fleurpepper what do you mean by 'full reversal'?

FarNorth

Fleurpepper what do you mean by 'full reversal'?

I’m interested too. Fleurprepper.
Reversal means going back to a previous state.

It means hormonal treatment, to grow breasts and stop hair, etc. It means a complicated operation, ablating the penis, and using it to create a fully functionning vagina and the creation of labia and clitoris.

VioletSky

Clicking on "Biological Factors" will show what has been learned so far

www.theguardian.com/science/2019/feb/24/meet-the-neuroscientist-shattering-the-myth-of-the-gendered-brain-gina-rippon

www.scientificamerican.com/article/most-of-us-combine-personality-traits-from-different-genders/

VioletSky

Galaxy

If tomorrow I decided oh I was wrong, you can change sex, it would have no impact on the fact that it's not possible. It's dangerous in particular to transpeople to pretend that that is the case.

Try reading it, there are differences in brain structure and genes

It's not about changing sex it's about establishing your true sex which isn't defined by sex organs

As is proven by studies on those who were raised as girls because they had sex organ difformities and it was easier to create a vagina through surgery than a penis. Their internal gender did not change despite being raised as girls.

It's actually very interesting and you are an intelligent woman capable of understanding it... if you want to

What do you mean by 'true sex.'
When it comes to breeding I think biological sex is rather relevant.
By clarifying what words mean nobody is suggesting trans people should not be allowed to live their lives with respect and dignity.

Thank you FP.
So, not reversing to a previous state at all but changing to a new state.

It can't include a 'fully-functioning vagina' tho but a cosmetic version of a vagina, clitoris and labia surely.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to your friends or relatives but I think it's important to be accurate in what we are talking about.

As is proven by studies on those who were raised as girls because they had sex organ difformities and it was easier to create a vagina through surgery than a penis. Their internal gender did not change despite being raised as girls.

Those people were boys, tho, and even if they had loved being 'girly' they would still be boys.

Most of the people claiming to be trans do not have a DSD condition, they are simply females or males who want to be the opposite sex (which isn't actually possible).

FarNorth

^As is proven by studies on those who were raised as girls because they had sex organ difformities and it was easier to create a vagina through surgery than a penis. Their internal gender did not change despite being raised as girls.^

Those people were boys, tho, and even if they had loved being 'girly' they would still be boys.

Most of the people claiming to be trans do not have a DSD condition, they are simply females or males who want to be the opposite sex (which isn't actually possible).

Yes.

What kind of collective insanity what mad world do we now inhabit, where we sow seeds in a child’s brain that their precious body is somehow wrong, they are in the wrong body. But we say can be fixed, promoting as a positive, the idea that with a life time of powerful medication chemical castration, or going further becoming a eunuch, all will be well What kind of butchers devoid of medical ethics mutilates, chops healthy breasts off a young girl. What kind of society does not protect these evolving beautiful minds, instead fills their heads with hatred towards their beautiful bodies. I stand ashamed ashamed and incredulous of what is taking place and where it is all heading.

stormystar👏🏻👏🏻
I think what’s happening around the trans issue is unbelievable too.Emperors new clothes syndrome, nobody wants to say anything against it all outright, out of fear.
Downright crazy a lot of it.

It's horrific.
Keeping quiet out of fear is letting bullies win.

I agree FarNorth.

Will a time come when ‘real’ woman will be a memory from the past ?

It’s like a Margaret Atwood book, dystopian. 😳

I’m glad I won’t be here to see it.

He says it better than I could.

twitter.com/d4ds4g4inst/status/1593528889015504901?s=61&t=XnAzomeEYsOrh8ziGQs8Rw

Thanks for the link grannydarkhair. Anyone who thinks this will help trans . . . ?

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202211/medium-735096-screenshot-20221119-084701.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202211/medium-320415-screenshot-20221117-171250.png

Here's transwoman Debbie Hayton replying to that tweet and making the same point that women are making.
Is DH bigoted against trans people? Obviously not, and neither are others who think this is madness.

Also, here's a recent photo of violent sex-offender 'transwoman' Katie Dolatowski. He's a big guy.
He has already attacked two young girls in toilets.

That is a perfect example of what we've all been saying grannydarkhair. A picture paints a thousand words.

In a nutshell grannydarkhair and how can anyone believe this is acceptable?.

Smileless2012

In a nutshell grannydarkhair and how can anyone believe this is acceptable?.

It’s evidently acceptable
•for those whom it does not affect,

•for those who consider themselves ‘Joke’ (yes I know it’s ‘Woke’ but because they can’t see it also means their discrimination against females, they’re more of a Bernard Manning sort of joke.)

•for those who still, unbelievably, consider the rights of males override those of females

• for those who do not understand or will not understand the harm done to the ordinary, peaceful, non-cheating, non-threatening trans by those trans and fans who caused, and are still causing problems.

Our generation grew up with only one model of a couple - a (natural born) man and a (natural born) woman.

I am glad to be part of one of these couples because it makes life a lot less complicated.

However, over the years we have come to recognise other types of couples - such as same sex couples.

More recently the question of transgender people (who always existed but pretty much under the radar) is coming to the fore.

I remember, in the 1960s, reading the story of the writer Jan Morriss, who, as James Mrriss had been the Times correspondant who first reportecd the British conquest of Everest on the eve of the coronation.

He had married Elizabeth in the 1940s and fathered five children but in 1964 transitioned to become a woman.

What a remarkable person. She continued to live with Elizabeth, the mother of his children, and although they had to divorce when James became Jan, they were able to remarry when same sex marriage became legal.

Yes, varian, I've read about Jan Morris and there was a recent TV documentary about her. She was very brave, as pioneers have to be.

I am happy that more people can live in whatever way they choose, but when men such as the one in grannydarkhair's link can insist that they are women, we are in trouble, as there is then no safe space for women and girls to go, and the few rights we have that differ from men have vanished.

People who express concern about this are not saying that they wish ill on people like Jan Morris, but that they want to retain single sex status, so that people can't opt in and out of 'womanhood' based on 'feeling like a woman'. We just want to have the concept of being a woman protected - is that such a big ask?

I'm not happy with any transwomen being in females' places, especially as numbers increase.
If they pass really well, of course, I'd never know they were there but not all do.
And absolutely all of them are still male.

If you read Jan Morris’s autobiography, you’ll find that she acknowledged and always knew that she was not a ‘real’ woman.

FarNorth
If they pass really well, of course, I'd never know
Would those who go to so much effort to fit in, and conceal their maleness be likely
•to use their disguise to be upskirting perverts,
•to display their penis in female spaces such as changing rooms,
.•or use their access to female spaces such as hospitals, prisons or mental wards as an opportunity to rape females or to shout their right to be in female spaces because today, they’re a woman ?

It’s unlikely, and prior to the actions of those who would do that, many TW may well have been accessing female spaces meaning no harm and going undetected.

But the actions of those TW who would or have done unacceptable actions, together with the shouts from people who say “You can’t tell the difference” have made it essential to keep female spaces for females.

If you are male and you previously accessed female spaces, unnoticed then you are the trans who will suffer most from the TW who have done actions like those I mentioned in the first paragraph because they have made life more difficult for you.

I’ve just read that the Final of Brain of Britain was the first time all the finalists were female. However in fact there were 3 female and one transwoman. The BBC called it an ‘all women final’.

It’s fine having transwomen in the Final but at least the BBC should be honest about the contestants.