Petition : *Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex*

No!

15.5K people have signed since yesterday.

This petition is simply asking the government to clear up some ambiguity in law.

FarNorth Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
I have signed and will forward.

Thanks for this thread FarNorth; I've signed

I suppose the problem is there are so many of these petitions on change.org now that once you sign for one you are inundated with others that you may not agree with. This petition, however, seems one of the more important ones so I have signed. Thank you Far North for bringing it to my attention.

For those who don’t want to sign surely it’s enough to say thanks but no thanks. No need to give reasons, and no need to denigrate or be denigrated by other posters.

Mollygo

FarNorth

A situation where a baby died, in part because a female person was designated 'male' in her medical notes.

metro.co.uk/2019/05/20/pregnant-transgender-mans-baby-died-because-nurse-didnt-realize-he-was-in-labor-9613972/

That is really sad, but therein lies the problem. If you say you are a man (AHF) then you can’t be pregnant.
Same as if you insist you are a woman, you can’t get inflammation of or problems with a penis or testicles.
At some time, you need to acknowledge the your birth sex. It’s your responsibility.
I’ve read enough posts telling me I’m wrong to say TW are male, not AHF, but sometimes there a reason for telling the truth-that you can’t change sex.

Sorry but if someone arrives in pain in a hospital and says they have done a pregnancy test that patient should be listened to. But anyway if the staff were treating him as a man why did they do a pregnancy test? A clear case I think of a transman being let down by hospital staff, and then blamed for it. But of course he might sue so blame him instead.
I would have thought as you believe he is a woman you would be protesting loudly about this lack of care for a female.

The lack of care for a female began with the designation 'female' being removed from her medical record and replaced with 'male'.
Clearly this person continued to be female .

In a busy A&E Dept, assessing a confused person who appears male and, crucially, has 'male' on their medical record is it surprising that the chance of pregnancy was initially disregarded?

It is ludicrous and dangerous to falsify medical records based on a patient's feelings.

I do believe TM are female, as I also believe TW are male. Did she arrive at the hospital and point out that she was female or at least a TM?
I have been castigated on GN for saying a man can’t be pregnant! I’ve been accused of being homophobic for saying TW are male.
I’ve been frequently told that you can’t tell by looking at someone whether they are male or female.
Seems that only applies when it suits.

Losing a baby is sad as I well know. It was really sad- for her and possibly also the male who caused her pregnancy.
Trans must take responsibility and state their sex, when it really matters.

Mollygo

Agreed.

The patient identified as transgender when they arrived. The review of the case states The man’s case was highlighted by Dr Daphna Stroumsa in the New England Journal of Medicine on Wednesday as an example of how gender assumptions can be detrimental in hospitals.
So nothing to do with the medical records, but with staff assumptions and a general lack of care for transgender people

^I’ve been frequently told that you can’t tell by looking at someone whether they are male or female.
Seems that only applies when it suits.^
No it absolutely applies in all cases. Stop assuming you know, ask if you need to know and listen to the answer.
He identified himself as transgender
He said he'd done a pregnancy test
They gave him a pregnancy test
They assumed because he was fat and looked male that he couldn't be pregnant.
Not his fault!

Rosie51

Meant to quote DaisyAnne in my last post.

Thanks Mollygo sometimes they almost make you doubt yourself!

You should doubt yourself. Mollygo is basically saying no one can have an opinion unless it is the same as hers. What an arrogant group you seem to be.

Rosie51

growstuff

Rosie51

growstuff

Mollygo

Rosie51

Signed. I do wonder why anybody who agrees with all the other protected characteristics in the EA wouldn't think the 'sex' characteristic should be defined according to sex. Gender is a protected category. Are they frightened if sex is properly defined and protected as in biology, women might actually retain some protections?

Exactly that Rosie51.
By not signing, they make it quite clear that for them, male supremacy still rules, even if he’s wearing a dress!

What a load of rot! I'm not signing, but not because I believe male supremacy rules (or should rule).

Are you willing to say why you wouldn't sign, why you don't think the sex category should be based on biological sex (since scientifically there is only biological sex) anything else is the amorphous 'gender' thingy.

None of your business! It's not a police state, is it?

You wouldn't like my reply anyway!

Wow, aggressive or what!!!!!! That was a polite enquiry whether you would be willing to expand on your reply. That you respond in such a way speaks volumes!!!!! I now know to totally dismiss any reference of yours to family members who have 'scientific knowledge, expertise or whatever' as a total irrelevance, not to be given any weight at all.

And you don't think your "only my opinion counts" attitude is not aggressive?

Prentice

Signed.

It may be worth considering, to anyone who signs this petition, to simply ignore any aggressive remarks by posters who do not want to sign, as it could lead to spats and the thread being pulled.This is often the purpose as those who do not like a thread wish it to happen.I have seen this on forums before, and it is a shame.

Gaslighting level 1.

DaisyAnne

How arrogant of you to twist my words like that.
I presume that’s how you read it because you don’t agree with it. You don’t have to agree with it and I didn’t tell you you should.
There are so many much better examples than mine on GN of people telling others that their opinion is wrong, though I doubt if they see themselves as arrogant.

And so it begins.
That is why my suggestion to ignore aggressive or personal remarks is indeed a good one.

Thank you for the link. Signed.

Thanks for the link I’ve signed and have asked my MP her position on this.

What is biological sex? I have a small beard on my chin and no functioning gonads and claim to be a woman for historical reasons .

It's a protected characteristic for one thing Caleo.

Daisy Ann, abuse of posters' ideas and posts is and should be par for the course on all internet forums. Ideas pertain to the 1st person singular and are not his or her identity. So don't bother about criticism.

Galaxy, protected by whom?

Under the equality act.

You know the protected characteristics that include race, disability, age etc.

Glorianny if a medical record is factually correct it wouldn't matter what confusion might be created by the patient saying a number of things like "I'm trans" "I'm a man" "I did a pregnancy test" "I'm not female".

Given the public statements of some trans people e.g. India Willoughby saying "I am biologically female" and "I have a cervix" it's perfectly possible that a distressed patient would make confusing statements about themself.

If the medical staff are to disregard the sex signifier on all records and regard everyone as possibly female & equally possibly male, there is no point in that signifier being there at all.

What happens then, however, if a test is being done where the result found is fine for a male but dangerous for a female, or vice versa?