Scotland's Gender Recognition Reform Bill to be debated today 20 Dec & voted on 21 Dec

A thread about the Guardian deleting comments from people who were raising coherent, reasonable points about what was happening in Holyrood yesterday. I was a reader for years, it’s very sad that excellent writers like Suzanne Moore and Hadley Freeman had to leave, and censorship has taken a strong hold.

twitter.com/orlando__gloom/status/1606280311989338112?s=61&t=7rnQW_F0CximUKT2E2p1Dg

It's depressing, isn't it?

I was a subscriber to their online version for ages, but cancelled a year or so ago because of this. I don't want to see the rest of their News get lost, but I can't pay to support censorship. similarly, my Amazon Smile donations went to Stonewall at one time, but I switched to something else for the same reasons.

I appreciate that there are different perspectives on this, but it is very rare that anyone from the trans agenda side of the fence answers questions or even attempts to join in a debate - instead there is censorship from those with the power to use it, and ridicule, accusations and dismissive behaviour from those who don't.

A explanation of why Elaine did what she did in Holyrood.
twitter.com/nic_jameson/status/1606027126167437312?s=61&t=5zwBFE__UhtOfXJUtJmHHQ

I love this.
twitter.com/slipkn0t8/status/1606191754079744001?s=61&t=O3geJRsAvX0qH2BtOOr4DA

Today for the first time since I joined Twitter, I’ve used the block facility. I had tweeted on several threads last night, and my goodness found out that yes, you do get followed from thread to thread if you happen to annoy the trans activists enough.
According to them, I’m transphobic, homophobic, racist, fascist, dim as f.ck, thick as f.ck, a c.nt, a b..tard, a right-wing Christian fundamentalist, a Nazi, a pervert, a paedophile, I support genocide of the most marginalised group ever and possibly the most insulting of all a Tory 😁 and all because I support women’s rights and the safeguarding of children.

Doodledog I never subscribed, I worked shifts (no two weeks the same) for 27+years and quite often just didn’t have time to read a paper. I still read Grace Dent and Jay Raynor’s restaurant reviews and food articles but that’s it.

Wyllow3

They are big issues for children and young people to consider.

When the Tavistock was closed the clear recommendations were for regional centres to be set up where support and genuine supportive-but-"questioning" counselling could take place.

This has not happened. A young scotswoman on the news last night had waited 4 years.

Locally, there is in the MH sector, where atm, these services are situated, 1.4 workers who have referrals for ALL sexual/relationship counselling.

I'd like to see far more calls for this kind of support instead of endless, "they are taking services away from natal women".

The closure of Tavistock and start up of regional centres is to happen in Spring 2023, no more precise date given I don't think .

Young people in Scotland are referred to the Sandyford clinic in Glasgow, not the Tavistock.
So far, ScotGov is insisting that there will be no change with the Sandyford.

Ellie Gomersall, theyoung person who was interviewed, is 23 so was 19 or maybe 18 at the start of the wait - too old for the Sandyford or Tavistock.

Posters on most of the trans threads on GN have said exactly that - that children should have holistic counseling rather than it being immediately accepted that their distress means they should be on a trans pathway.

As you also mentioned women's services - they are being affected by the inclusion of men, who may or may not be genuine transwomen. They are always male in any case.
We are not going to pretend that isn't happening.

I hope no-one tells children they are puzzled and mistaken or that they might harm women.
GC people believe children should have counseling, which shouldn't tell them anything but should help them with their difficulties - which may stem from something other than gender dysphoria.

I don't remember anyone here denying that a child might have gender dysphoria. Some may do .
I don't believe that every child who is claimed to have dysphoria, or to just know they are the opposite sex, really does or is .

Self-identification of sex, as now being made law by ScotGov, is based on there being no need for a diagnosis of dysphoria in any case.
So what is likely to happen, is self-id by a child, social transition even when parents are unhappy about that - as you described happening at your niece's school Wyllow3 - followed by the young person being completely confirmed in the idea of being the opposite sex (which in Scotland can now be legally registered by 16.5 yrs) and seriously considering hormone treatment and/or surgery , both of which can be very damaging to their health.

It would be nice if we could hear two sides of the debate instead of the judgemental labels which are chucked around as soon as someone disagrees with them. I find that most depressing and yet another erosion of free speech which went out the window quite some time ago.

Here's a new video from Mr Menno in which he shows a lot of information, from trans people themselves, on what it means to be trans.

youtu.be/zrkOCiSotSA

The sex of a person relates to their penis/vagina/ breasts, pelvic dimensions etc. But their gender relates to behaviours.

There is no need for any child to be dissatisfied with their body because they want to behave in a way that is unconventional. No child needs to dislike their body for any reason other than pain or disability .

The wonderful Elaine Miller explaining why she felt she had to protest in Holyrood.

twitter.com/gussiegrips/status/1606485612219236354?s=61&t=2mMKZLcjpllROudXZWoILw

FarNorth thanks for the post of Mr Menno, I enjoyed it, he’s always very easy to watch/listen. Do you follow him on Instagram? He posted a few days back, he had a cold and his voice was very different because of it, very funny.

I don't look at Instagram much gdh but I'll check out Mr Menno. Thanks.

I wouldn't say I enjoyed the video, exactly. I did know most of that already but it's quite startling to see it all in one place.
Mr Menno's presentation is always so creative, tho.

An example of the 'no problems' happening in other countries.
This one is Brazil.

reduxx.info/brazil-female-student-assaulted-by-trans-identified-male-over-washroom-access-says-she-was-afraid-of-dying/

FarNorth

An example of the 'no problems' happening in other countries.
This one is Brazil.

reduxx.info/brazil-female-student-assaulted-by-trans-identified-male-over-washroom-access-says-she-was-afraid-of-dying/

The trans woman also identifies as a homosexual man. They can be whatever they want to be then, at any given point?

The aggression was typical male aggression - demanding "respect" and reminding the woman that the hand could find her face.

... know your place, women. And be kind. Or else. If a male-bodied individual with a penis tells you "I'm a woman", you'd better believe it.

This absolutely enrages me. I'm sure it's not an everyday occurrence - anywhere - and most trans women just get on with their every day lives coming and going quietly like everyone else, but one instance like this is one too many.

The aggression is horrendous and the accusations of transphobia are more and more absurd. I don't believe this individual is a trans woman, he is a man who has found another way to intimidate women whom we clearly does not identify with, nor like - unless they are submissive to his demands, which is the trait of a misogynist.

Parading around in a pair of jeans does not make me a man, and donning a dress does not make a man a woman.

""I don't believe this individual is a trans woman, he is a man who has found another way to intimidate women whom we clearly does not identify with, nor like - unless they are submissive to his demands, which is the trait of a misogynist."

Just so. We need to recognise, protect genuine and vulnerable transwomen precisely because of this.

No easy answer to, "well how do we know" except, "By their deeds you will know them"

Like others, who transgress decent behaviour, whoever they are.

Why is this person not trans? Because you say so. If you create a category that is defined by words and wishful thinking alone then of course they can be trans.

It doesn't matter if we can tell the difference since all men are now welcome in all women's places.

Scottish Women's Aid, for instance, tells us they have had no problems at all in 15 years of trans inclusion.
Possibly because, until recent years, no-one knew they were trans inclusive (apart from ScotGov, who make it a condition of funding) and there have been very few transwomen.

Now, tho, someone like this man might turn up, on his best behaviour & claiming to need help.
Should they let him in? And how much of a refuge will it seem to the women then, even if he is not aggressive, or if he is?
Should they refuse him for looking too much like a man? And maybe they'll suddenly have a male aggression problem.

Claiming that men can be women is complete madness.

Here's an interview with the Wii Spa man - of another non-event that didn't happen.
He's a sex offender who was naked in a women's changing room. He has a legal identity as female and continues to present as a typical male.

www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/exclusive-transgender-fugitive-who-spurred-wi-spa-riots-bares-all/

This will probably get me at least deleted but it’s something that applies to ANY TW who parades his maleness or uses his equipment whilst claiming to be a ‘woman’.
They have made it so difficult for the quietly existing TW - but do they care? No!
Sing along to the transjenner song
If a person has a penis, he’s a man 👏👏
If a person has a penis, he’s a man 👏👏
If he doesn’t want to lose it
Even though he doesn’t use it
If a person has a penis, he’s a man 👏👏

If a person has a nutsack, he’s a man
If a person has a nutsack, he’s a man
He can tuck it to conceal it
Let it dangle and reveal it
If a person has a nutsack, he’s a man

If he amputates his bits, he’s still a man
If he grows a pair of tits, he’s still a man
If the chromosome’s a “Y”
HE WILL ALWAYS BE A GUY ……..
If he isn’t born a woman, he’s a man.

👍

FarNorth

Here's an interview with the Wii Spa man - of another non-event that didn't happen.
He's a sex offender who was naked in a women's changing room. He has a legal identity as female and continues to present as a typical male.

www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/exclusive-transgender-fugitive-who-spurred-wi-spa-riots-bares-all/

It’s not for me to adapt to society at this point. Even if it’s the polite thing to do or you want me to or there’s a controversy or whatever, if nobody else is using a shower curtain or nobody else is using a swimsuit, it’s illegal to try and make me do it. Technically, and from all perspectives, I am female

I have heterosexual sex because my penis fits in a vagina. I don’t tell women I’m with that I’m transgender because that’s not my sex. So I’m not faking anything. Gender is internal, sex is external.

You have to understand gender identity. Everybody’s confusing your internal with your external. All these external people are doing what is being called transitioning. There’s no transition. That’s called deviation. I’m tired of that word.

The only thing I'm understanding is that women are supposed to adapt to whatever, and whomever, he's decided - internally - to relate, as he navigates his gender identity.

And I'm puzzled as to why he thinks that a trans woman who identifies as female and attempts to change their physical appearance to reflect the physical characteristics of the sex they identify with - is a "deviant". Because to my staggered mind, a trans woman who identifies as female, wanting to physically appear as female - has a logic. If they want to look like a woman as well as identify as one - how can this possibly be a deviation?

I admit I'm confused.

Great song Mollygo

Mollygo

Dickens may I call you Charles?😄
I agree with you 100% btw
I think some men think they can be anything and do anything and get away with it,