Guy Verhofstadt says “Happy Brexit Day”

I'm not sure why people think being out of the EU means we'll lose employment rights etc etc. Did the UK not introduce a lot of employment laws long before we joined?

Because the Bill which is passing through Parliament does away with a massive ( calculated to be almost 4,000) amount of legislation which incorporates EU law. Which includes workers rights, working time directives, product standards and environmental protections. These are all supposed to lapse by the end of this year, 'if' the legislation goes through. There is absolutely no time in which to draft and bring into law substitutes for all of the lapsed legislation.

This includes any legislation which existed before joining the then EEC which has subsequently included EU law.

When you look at the rightwingers controlling this government, and their beliefs, they will not be in any hurry to bring in measures which they believe to be anti business... You can see the trends already with draconian anti strike legislation...

davidallengreen.com/2023/01/bonfire-of-red-tape/

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/18/brexit-eu-law-democracy-rishi-sunak

Leaving the EU will not restore us to the happy state which existed pre 1973. That exists merely as a Leavers' fantasy.

Urmstongran

We were in the EU for over 40 years. As I’ve said, this uncoupling will be a journey not a quick ‘event’. I’m a patient soul. Let’s see where we are in a few years’ time and then judge. Doomsters at the time we’re saying the sky would fall in. It didn’t. Most people haven’t gained or lost anything discernible since Brexit. I’m convinced good things will happen yet to the benefit of the UK.

I was (and am) one of the doomsters. I never said the sky would fall in, quite the contrary I said we would bleed to death slowly.

MayBee70

I don’t recall the leave campaign telling us that it would take years to reap any benefits ( and I have been listening to some of the debates that took place at the time to refresh my memory: in fact, Gisela Stewart, on this very forum, told us that our energy bills would be reduced if we left the EU).

I don’t think the lovely Gisela knew a war with Ukraine was just around the corner ...

Urmstongran

Apologies NotSpaghetti - that figure was told to Kay Burley yesterday on SKY news by Jacob Rees Mogg who knows his stuff. Kay pressed him several times about Brexit benefits and he answered her questions thoroughly and politely (as he always does).

He may be polite, but he is mendacious. There was no EU furlough scheme, individual countries determined their own programmes, so the UK would have spent £70bn regardless of EU membership.

And similarly with QE. If he is he referring to ECB decisions, they only impact the Eurozone. Non-Euro countries can determine their own monetary policies. If not, what did he mean?

I did not see the interview, so could be misinterpreting his views. Can you please explain his rationale and evidence base, so I can retract if necessary? Thank you.

Most people haven’t gained or lost anything discernible since Brexit. I’m convinced good things will happen yet to the benefit of the UK.

Jesus wept. You must be walking around with your eyes closed.

Urmstongran

MayBee70

I don’t recall the leave campaign telling us that it would take years to reap any benefits ( and I have been listening to some of the debates that took place at the time to refresh my memory: in fact, Gisela Stewart, on this very forum, told us that our energy bills would be reduced if we left the EU).

I don’t think the lovely Gisela knew a war with Ukraine was just around the corner ...

We had several years after the referendum and before the war for energy prices to come down.

Thanks for linking to the Sky/Jacob Rees Mogg interview Urmstongran I'd still like to know where he got that from!
Don't suppose anyone will ever know.

It's the apathy of so many people that gets to me. The standard reply when you want to discuss politics with them seems to be "Oh well, I'm not interested in politics/oh well, they're all the same/oh well, things will sort themselves out. Do some people really care so little or is it that they can't be bothered to take an interest?

MayBee70

I don’t see how brexit can possibly fail with politicians like Rees Mogg, Redwood and Cash behind it. Such intellect and dynamism. The rest of the world must be so envious of us…

Well said MayBee. Sadly this is what we have in this government. So:

No critical financial management skills
No communication and negotiation skills
No leadership skills
No problem solving skills
and an aversion to networking with other leaders

I am sure you can all add to this list but basically nothing we would expect if appointing the leader of anything other than the government.

I wouldn't let them run a corner shop and sadly I think we will be worse off, with more people pushed into poverty, before we get to the next election, when sadly they will magic some treats out of thin air and tell us the last 12 years never happened.

MaizieD

^Most people haven’t gained or lost anything discernible since Brexit. I’m convinced good things will happen yet to the benefit of the UK.^

Jesus wept. You must be walking around with your eyes closed.

Not at all. I can only speak as I find amongst my own family, friends, ex colleagues and acquaintances.

twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1620422171637211137?t=GNca78XcbS3CjJFhsdbiqg&s=19

Johnson must thank his lucky stars for Covid and his world beating vaccine rollout. Is he now doing adverts for AAH?

Nothing discernible lost??? Really??? Energy prices did not fall after Brexit and before the Ukraine war as promised by Stuart. There was no immediate uplift to NHS funding from EU savings. UK citizens lost the right to live and work in the EU. Many businesses were adversely impacted by EU citizens returning home because they felt unwelcome in the UK and feared visa problems. Collaboration on various academic and research programmes came to an end. Some businesses simply gave up trading to Northern Ireland, depriving NI residents of a choice of goods, because of extra form-filling costs and delays (forms which Johnson denied would ever have to be filled in). Other businesses encounter delays, forms and costs exporting to the EU because Johnson failed to negotiate an adequate deal. People had to go to the extra trouble of obtaining Irish and other passports so they could go about their lives. The idea that there have been no disbenefits to individuals and businesses is poppycock.

Wyllow3

And we can take steps to rejoin aspects of the EU that will benefit us. its not an all or nothing situation.

But as for doing well out of it? Where'e the evidence? We are in an appalling state trade wise.

Exactly Wyllow. What I would like to know is why those Brexiteers, such as Urmstongran, who are still fighting old battles, don't agree with such common sense.

What, exactly, are they afraid of?

MaizieD

Wyllow3

And we can take steps to rejoin aspects of the EU that will benefit us. its not an all or nothing situation.

But as for doing well out of it? Where'e the evidence? We are in an appalling state trade wise.

Well, that's doubtful. There isn't going to be any cherry picking tolerated. If we try to rejoin the single market it'll be with freedom of movement, which won't please our xenophobes.

I'm still waiting for my unicorn and sunny uplands.

And here we have the other extreme.

Urmstongran

One of my acquaintances is a retired consultant paediatrician who weighed up the pro’s and con’s presented at the time of the Referendum and voted to Leave. Like me, no regrets.

So who do you go to when you want children cared for UG, a retired economist?

Some pro Brexiteers are living very narrow lives if they have only their I’m all right Jack circle of acquaintances to base their opinions on. Tell that to the businesses forced to close or move to the Netherlands that there are no downsides. No one said the sky would fall in if we left but neither would it have fallen in if we’d stayed in either. That is a spurious defence of the indefensible.

It seems to me that neither the extreme Leave voters or the extreme Remain voters can accept that Brexit has actually happened. They go on fighting because they each know that, although a battle has been won, the war hasn't.

Those having a more pragmatic turn of mind just want to get over all the issues and problems caused and get on with making life better.

I suppose it was ever thus.

vegansrock

Some pro Brexiteers are living very narrow lives if they have only their I’m all right Jack circle of acquaintances to base their opinions on. Tell that to the businesses forced to close or move to the Netherlands that there are no downsides. No one said the sky would fall in if we left but neither would it have fallen in if we’d stayed in either. That is a spurious defence of the indefensible.

That is exactly the same as "some" Leavers. Extremists will always chose to surround themselves with others of the same thinking.

DaisyAnne

vegansrock

Some pro Brexiteers are living very narrow lives if they have only their I’m all right Jack circle of acquaintances to base their opinions on. Tell that to the businesses forced to close or move to the Netherlands that there are no downsides. No one said the sky would fall in if we left but neither would it have fallen in if we’d stayed in either. That is a spurious defence of the indefensible.

That is exactly the same as "some" Leavers. Extremists will always chose to surround themselves with others of the same thinking.

So do tell us then, DaisyAnne, what we have gained from Brexit that we can be pragmatic about and what power we have to make life better.

Perhaps all those SMEs which have stopped trading with the EU because of the trade barriers consequent on Brexit, and had to close; the musicians who are finding their opportunities to work in Europe restricted, the farmers whose crops rotted in the fields because they had no-one to pick them, the fishers whose industry has virtually been destroyed because they can't sell the fish they catch, that the British don't eat, to the Europeans who do eat them, the academics who have lost access to participation in European research projects, the people who have lost their jobs because the company they worked for has relocated to the EU...

I'm sure they'd all be delighted to know how they can make their lives better.

I think really that you just don't want to hear us moaning about it, or refuting the Leave lies...

I'll do my bit by voting out this dreadful government if we ever get the opportunity... In the meantime I'm not going to fall silent.

DaisyAnne

It seems to me that neither the extreme Leave voters or the extreme Remain voters can accept that Brexit has actually happened. They go on fighting because they each know that, although a battle has been won, the war hasn't.

Those having a more pragmatic turn of mind just want to get over all the issues and problems caused and get on with making life better.

I suppose it was ever thus.

It’s a tiny minority who are pragmatic now DaisyAnne. Making the best of it doesn’t mean the majority aren’t angry, very angry or furious - the more people have found out, the more angry they are - that doesn’t make them extremists.

I will never get over it. I met my Scandinavian group recently and we all said the same thing. We don't feel we belong here any more. Not that that should worry anybody else but we feel very sad about it.

It was always going to be a disaster. Why oh why make life difficult for ourselves. Why cut ourselves off from our nearest neighbours when it comes to trading, incurring more costs and even more paperwork. Absolute madness.

Hear hear NannyJan53. the utter sadness of feeling we were leaving friends, friends we'd gone through WW2 with, people we traded with so much, could travel freely to see and them us. Thank you for the clip says it all.

So do tell us then, DaisyAnne, what we have gained from Brexit that we can be pragmatic about and what power we have to make life better. Maizie

Do you really think people will reply to your sarcasm? If you would like to ask reasonably politely I will answer.

grandMattie

Because of the political antipathy of the rest of Europe, but their need for our money, Brexit was necessary. We were going to be made topay, both financially and politically whatever the poll result. Verhogstadt and Barnier are toxic politicians.
We have now left, with punitive clauses. TM didn’t do us any favour with her wobbling. Whatever his faults, BoJo got us out, then was catapulted into the pandemic.
We need a strong and committed Brexit government of whatever hue, with help from all the media. No more negative, woke, snowflake scandals. Head down, bum up, and work towards a fair trading agreement.

I like your style grandMattie 😄
Tbh I didn’t vote for Brexit tho was on the fence for a while about it.Seeing people like Verhofstadt and what they were like afterwards made me wonder tho, toxic politicians is bang on!
Head down bum up and work towards good trading positions is exactly right.