Shock result of latest polling

PS. If the government creates money, what do you think happens to it? It creates growth! The problem comes when a government is reluctant to get it back by taxing and/or lets people who will squirrel it away get hold of it.

If government money creates growth that is good, most of of does not, if it is used to buy food or pay rent or buy new shoes for the kids, it provides very little growth or tax revenue. With nearly 1/4 of the population below the official poverty line most of the borrowing is being used to support them.

Most growth is being achieve by commercial and domestic borrowing, most of us have a loan to buy a house a car, or most large items. State borrowing that provides commercial growth or tax revenue is very limited

Zoejory

I don't think it's a shock. Labour will win the next election.

Lets hope so! Its hardly a surprise the Tories are so unpopular!

Yes. Definetly Labour will win the next election

Katie59

If government money creates growth that is good, most of of does not, if it is used to buy food or pay rent or buy new shoes for the kids, it provides very little growth or tax revenue. With nearly 1/4 of the population below the official poverty line most of the borrowing is being used to support them.

Most growth is being achieve by commercial and domestic borrowing, most of us have a loan to buy a house a car, or most large items. State borrowing that provides commercial growth or tax revenue is very limited

How do you work that one out?

Of course money spent on food and new shoes can create growth. I don't even know where to start with this argument.

Maybe you'd like to explain what you understand by growth and just why it's inevitably a good thing.

It is absolute nonsense to claim that most borrowing supports people below the poverty line. Again, maybe you'd like to explain.

I don't think you even understand what state borrowing entails and what happens to the money "borrowed".

Some 50 years ago, when I was at college, a lecturer pointed out that that state 'benefits' kept money circulating in the economy. That that was a good reason for introducing them.
It seemed so obvious that I just don't understand why people cannot grasp this fact.

What does Katie59 want? That people who can't 'earn' their money, or who are too old or ill to work, are left to starve? That the economy contracts even further so more people are put out of work?

jenpax

Zoejory

I don't think it's a shock. Labour will win the next election.

Lets hope so! Its hardly a surprise the Tories are so unpopular!

Two life-time Tory voters told me last week that they would vote Labour is there is an election soon.

😲

Yes I hope Labour will win the next general election across the whole UK. Time for better governance especially in Scotland. Let's work together for the benefit of all our people.

The ONS reckons that prostitution and illegal drugs contribute £10 billion a year to GDP. So there's an idea! Increase growth by setting up a business selling crack and selling your body. If you can't sell your own body, set up a porn site!

Growth really is a silly measure of a country's wealth.

The poll result is hardly a shock given the state of the economy, energy prices, cost of living, Brexit mess ups, etc. after 13 years of inept Tory government - 5 PMs in 14 years must be a record for a Party in chaos.

MaizieD

Some 50 years ago, when I was at college, a lecturer pointed out that that state 'benefits' kept money circulating in the economy. That that was a good reason for introducing them.
It seemed so obvious that I just don't understand why people cannot grasp this fact.

What does Katie59 want? That people who can't 'earn' their money, or who are too old or ill to work, are left to starve? That the economy contracts even further so more people are put out of work?

Some of the poorest people do work anyway, providing profits for those in the upper echelons.

I want the government to borrow more to expand the economy, in recent times it has borrowed to support the population, as far as I can see that is going to continue with no proper business plan.

That does not mean more employment it means better employment by the use of new technology and automation. The so called service economy has only resulted in a decline in living standards especially for the poorest, or can someone point were it has benefited us

Its a well known fact that people don't always tell the truth when asked these questions. It could be completely wrong.
I think the Labour Party will win. No one trusts the Conservatives any more. Its time anyway for a change. Just a matter of time Brexit and Covid have just made it inevitable.

Katie59

I want the government to borrow more to expand the economy, in recent times it has borrowed to support the population, as far as I can see that is going to continue with no proper business plan.

That does not mean more employment it means better employment by the use of new technology and automation. The so called service economy has only resulted in a decline in living standards especially for the poorest, or can someone point were it has benefited us

What do you mean by "so called"? What else would you like the provision of services to be called?

Providing services to other people benefits everybody's lifestyle. .

growstuff

Katie59

I want the government to borrow more to expand the economy, in recent times it has borrowed to support the population, as far as I can see that is going to continue with no proper business plan.

That does not mean more employment it means better employment by the use of new technology and automation. The so called service economy has only resulted in a decline in living standards especially for the poorest, or can someone point were it has benefited us

What do you mean by "so called"? What else would you like the provision of services to be called?

Providing services to other people benefits everybody's lifestyle. .

Try telling that to be 23% of the population below the poverty line. Or nurses that are struggling with real wage cuts, you are so out of touch.

No Katie I don't think I am. By the way, I assume you realise that my income is in the bottom decile. I'm way below the poverty line.

I don't think you really understand what service industries are.

The UK is a rich country (still) with an unacceptable, increasing gap between the haves and have nots. There's not much pride left in being British. I just can't wait to get this bunch of clowns out of power and Labour (or anyone else) in charge.

Katie59

growstuff

Katie59

I want the government to borrow more to expand the economy, in recent times it has borrowed to support the population, as far as I can see that is going to continue with no proper business plan.

That does not mean more employment it means better employment by the use of new technology and automation. The so called service economy has only resulted in a decline in living standards especially for the poorest, or can someone point were it has benefited us

What do you mean by "so called"? What else would you like the provision of services to be called?

Providing services to other people benefits everybody's lifestyle. .

Try telling that to be 23% of the population below the poverty line. Or nurses that are struggling with real wage cuts, you are so out of touch.

That is why, Katie59, the government needs to pay decent public sector wages and increase benefits to help with the cost of living crisis. They are withholding money for no good reason and depressing the economy.

I think that growstuff has a very good understanding of how an economy should work. In fact, I don't 'think' it, I know she does.

Growstuff seems to think a service economy with ever shrinking productivity is enough, the last 50 yrs has proved that it isn’t.
The experiment has failed.

I started this thread. For me the most surprising finding was that

^A NEW poll has found that the Conservatives would become Westminster’s third party behind the SNP in a snap election. A poll of 28,000 people for The Telegraph found that if there were an imminent General Election then the Tories would be left with fewer seats than the SNP.

This would mean that SNP Leader, Stephen Flynn would become the leader of the opposition^

I am surprised that in all the posts and discussion, no one has mentioned this aspect of the findings, nor the (perhaps more likely?) scenario, whereby Labour is just short of a clear majority and does a deal whereby the SNP (and maybe Plaid) support Labour, in return for permission to hold an Independence Referendum.

I remain baffled as to why most discussion on GN proceeds as if there were only 2 Political Parties in the UK

I’m guessing people don’t think that what you suggest is actually a likely outcome Granny23? It could change dramatically between now and the election, but as it stands currently Labour will have a majority.

I remain baffled as to why most discussion on GN proceeds as if there were only 2 Political Parties in the UK

Isn't that because there are only two parties which are likely to win over all majorities, or be senior partner in a coalition?

I'd hope that other smaller parties do well in a GE, but I can't see it being a shock result on current polling.

Granny23 Satramer said live on radio last week that even if it meant another 5 years of Tory rule he would never work with the SNP .
Not that he'd be asked to !SNP have never voted on English only matters even before Camerons EVEL law.
Thats the EVEL law that stops Scottish MP's not only from voting on legislation that could have an effect on Scottish consequentials but Scottish MP's ever being PM .
Hoping we'll be walking out of the cesspit that is Westminster in the near future ,for a fairer,less corrupt ,more integrated Scotland in charge of ourselves.
Before our resident unionist comes out with more nonsense.the Scottish government has been subject to much praise about our NHS ...Best performing in the UK no strikes by nurses or ambulance staff and waiting lists lower than the rUK ...also much praise for the child payment meaning child poverty is more than 20% lower than in England ,the FACT that 10 years ago all of the "top ten"areas of most deprivation were in Scotland and now we aren't on the list ...all top ten are in England and much much more .All done on a fixed budget .
I know our resident unionist doesn't like these" handouts" she's said it before ,she'd prefer money going to the likes of Mone and Boris' pals .Most Scots think helping folk in need comes first
THATS why the SNP have won every election for a decade .
Hope all is well with you Granny 23

Starmer ,(keyboard sticking)