WW 3 ..is this the reality?

I cannot believe how many couch commandos there are advocating for more death and destruction in Ukraine.
There are only 3 possible outcomes now, the war will go on for years with millions more losing their lives or it will end with the death of all of us. The third option is for all western leaders to put political pride to one side, sit down and talk and bring about a peaceful solution that both sides can live with.

An anxiety disorder is about long-term and recurrent anxiety which is not based on situations which are genuinely and seriously worrying. Counselling and anti-depressants can really work there.

If people who are not normally anxious and become so because of a truly, seriously dangerous situation, that one cannot personally influence, then it is very probably NOT a disorder, but a natural reaction. Counselling might help, but anti-depressants are not the solution here. In this case, I woud call them 'happy pills' because they would dull and hide true danger.

I cannot believe how many couch commandos there are advocating for more death and destruction in Ukraine
Couch commandos? Really?

Some have experience of the military, others are from military families and all are entitled to a view.
In fact, some of us remember the march across Europe by the Soviet Union.
Some may have relatives in Ukraine or adjoining countries.

Freedom comes at a price.

What price is the question? Makes no difference if you are from a military family or not.

Agree Normandygirl. And no wonder some of us are truyl anxious at the moment, and has nothing to do with any anxiety disorder.

Bea65

Looking at TV coverage ...I'm feeling anxious that the more we send/spend on helping Ukraine, we're cooperating am not saying we shouldn't but just thinking how others feel about how far we go..we're already in crisis with NHS and need of financial assistance for cost of living assistance and this is too much for people's mental health

I'm avoiding the news. Perhaps not hearing bad news all the time might help your mental health?

Normandygirl

I cannot believe how many couch commandos there are advocating for more death and destruction in Ukraine.
There are only 3 possible outcomes now, the war will go on for years with millions more losing their lives or it will end with the death of all of us. The third option is for all western leaders to put political pride to one side, sit down and talk and bring about a peaceful solution that both sides can live with.

Just out of interest Normandygirl, when did you become a Putin supporter? I presume you don't think we should have democracy either.

“The third option is for all western leaders to put political pride to one side, sit down and talk and bring about a peaceful solution that both sides can live with.”

It seems that NATO are discounting that option, they could say to Ukraine “tough luck you are on your own”, they’re not we are encouraging Ukraine to keep fighting. NATO believes it can win a conventional war against Russia using Ukrainian manpower.

Is it realistic to expect Ukraine troops to be able to force Putin's Russia out of their country?
Zelensky has said that they are fighting WW3 and it seems he could well be right. The UK and all European countries which share our values have to go on contributing arms even if it means tightening our belts somewhat.
Should that include fighter planes? Difficult both practically and politically -
how would Putin react?
As for the Turkish/Syrian earthquake, the only helpful thing we can do is send what we can to the disaster emergency fund.

Katie59 In Ukraine's position would you be prepared to cede the easst coast of Britain, Northumberland down to Kent to, say, France, if they had invaded our country and tried to claim it as part of France because William The Conqueror came from Normandy and that was part of France?

Remember,Putin has already occupied and taken over the Crimea.

Even if we did broker a deal with Putin. How long do you think he would stick to it, a week, a month, a year?

Normandygirl peace does not necessarily mean not dyng and war does not mean dying. It is often a choice between which group of people die.

Do you think that if there was 'peace' in Ukraine (on what grounds? ceding even more Ukrainian territory to Russia?) that Russia would stop there? Do you not think there would be constant low grade warfare along the boundary? As I say in the post above. Do you think Russia would honour the border, and for how long.

How many Ukrainians left on the Russian side of the border would 'disappear' or be banished to punishment camps? What about the people in other countries with Russian supported enclaves, will they not be more at risk? How many Moldovan and Georgians will be threatened or die as the result of capitulating to Putin in Ukrainian.

As I said peace and war are rarely a choice between living or dying, merely of deciding which group will die and how many of them.

NATO believes it can win a conventional war against Russia using Ukrainian manpower. That’s a crass assumption. I don’t believe that NATO believes anything of the sort. The NATO countries realise that they have no choice but to support Ukraine with hardware and training just to hold the line. In the late seventies and early eighties, when Poland were part of the soviet bloc, the Russians were regularly putting feelers out and testing the water against NATO and NATO members were fewer then. Then, both we and the US had significant standing armies in Germany that were capable of staring them down. And stare them down we did a couple of times. Now we have all but pulled out of Germany and the US cut back its forces also, or rather it spread them more thinly among the former Warsaw Pact countries. The US has recently, in light of the Ukraine conflict, increased the size of its troop commitment to 100,000, and we have rapid reaction forces in Europe too, all of which would, one hopes, give Putin pause for thought. NATO is about deterrence - always has been.

Normandygirl

I cannot believe how many couch commandos there are advocating for more death and destruction in Ukraine.
There are only 3 possible outcomes now, the war will go on for years with millions more losing their lives or it will end with the death of all of us. The third option is for all western leaders to put political pride to one side, sit down and talk and bring about a peaceful solution that both sides can live with.

Ah, sweet!
As if Putin’s interested in that.

Of course MOnica, we all get this.

But your conclusion is a thing of the past, and old concept of previous wars- which is totally out-dated. This so much more so since smaller, precise and tactical nuclear weapons have been on the scene- and a madman or two.

You repeatedly refuse to acknowledge this, for some reason I cannot understand. Oh I wish, however dreadful it was, that we could send two armies and their Chief at the head of them, to fight in a field, far from ourselves and our families (their families too)- but that time has long gone.

“NATO believes it can win a conventional war against Russia using Ukrainian manpower. That’s a crass assumption. I don’t believe that NATO believes anything of the sort. The NATO countries realise that they have no choice but to support Ukraine with hardware and training just to hold the line”

If we believe that Russia is a threat to other countries in Eastern Europe then it is very much a case of defeating and driving them back, rather than holding the line.

If the policy is holding the line then save further destruction and countless lives, make peace now.

The choice is not a difficult one and you can’t have it both ways

I’m astounded that there are people in the UK who actually hold the opinion that Putin will sit down like a perfectly rational person and negotiate. It would actually be funny if it didn’t show such alarming ignorance blind and unjustified faith.

Oh I wish, however dreadful it was, that we could send two armies and their Chief at the head of them, to fight in a field, far from ourselves and our families (their families too)- but that time has long gone.
In 1914 there were military leaders on our side who thought we could do just that with hand to hand fighting and, God forbid, cavalry charges! They were still fighting Waterloo and the Crimea! They had a nasty wake up call and war was never the same again!

maddyone

I’m astounded that there are people in the UK who actually hold the opinion that Putin will sit down like a perfectly rational person and negotiate. It would actually be funny if it didn’t show such alarming ignorance blind and unjustified faith.

Hear, hear

Fleurpepper

Of course MOnica, we all get this.

But your conclusion is a thing of the past, and old concept of previous wars- which is totally out-dated. This so much more so since smaller, precise and tactical nuclear weapons have been on the scene- and a madman or two.

You repeatedly refuse to acknowledge this, for some reason I cannot understand. Oh I wish, however dreadful it was, that we could send two armies and their Chief at the head of them, to fight in a field, far from ourselves and our families (their families too)- but that time has long gone.

Whose sons would you send, if you could? Your own?

Elegran

Fleurpepper

Of course MOnica, we all get this.

But your conclusion is a thing of the past, and old concept of previous wars- which is totally out-dated. This so much more so since smaller, precise and tactical nuclear weapons have been on the scene- and a madman or two.

You repeatedly refuse to acknowledge this, for some reason I cannot understand. Oh I wish, however dreadful it was, that we could send two armies and their Chief at the head of them, to fight in a field, far from ourselves and our families (their families too)- but that time has long gone.

Whose sons would you send, if you could? Your own?

Our son is in the forces, he knew what he was signing up for as did we, it doesn’t make it easier though.

Elegran

Fleurpepper

Of course MOnica, we all get this.

But your conclusion is a thing of the past, and old concept of previous wars- which is totally out-dated. This so much more so since smaller, precise and tactical nuclear weapons have been on the scene- and a madman or two.

You repeatedly refuse to acknowledge this, for some reason I cannot understand. Oh I wish, however dreadful it was, that we could send two armies and their Chief at the head of them, to fight in a field, far from ourselves and our families (their families too)- but that time has long gone.

Whose sons would you send, if you could? Your own?

Oh no, someone else's of course.
A strange wish.

I wish, which will never come to pass so it is futile, I know, that the world did not throw up these murderous megalomaniac madmen one after another.

Bea65

It’s coming up to the anniversary and feel concerned that Putin had awful plan🥲

He probably has, but I very much doubt that he has either the men, the goodwill of the Russians, the ammunition or the artillery to implement it.

If this is in effect WW3, we are so far getting off much more lightly than our parents and grandparents did in the two former wars.

Of course, if we stop sending help to Ukraine, then we may well have something serious to worry about.

Elegran

Fleurpepper

Of course MOnica, we all get this.

But your conclusion is a thing of the past, and old concept of previous wars- which is totally out-dated. This so much more so since smaller, precise and tactical nuclear weapons have been on the scene- and a madman or two.

You repeatedly refuse to acknowledge this, for some reason I cannot understand. Oh I wish, however dreadful it was, that we could send two armies and their Chief at the head of them, to fight in a field, far from ourselves and our families (their families too)- but that time has long gone.

Whose sons would you send, if you could? Your own?

This is cheap and nasty. I'd hope none of our sons or grand-sons. No-one if forced to go into the Army these days either.

But if the choice we face- is soldiers, fighting soldiers, in a field far away, with their Chiefs at the Head, or massive number of innocent civilians, babies, children, mums the elderly, the sick and the infirm, mums giving birth- being 'collateral' damage- and worse even, civilisations as we know it being wiped out in a nuclear exchange- then I'd go for the first option.

This is cheap and nasty. I'd hope none of our sons or grand-sons. No-one if forced to go into the Army these days either.

No, it's neither cheap nor nasty. I was shocked by your post, suggesting that you wish for this to be resolved by an old-fashioned war with other mother's sons and other husbands giving their lives.

No-one if forced to go into the Army these days

Young Russian boys and men are.

Ukrainian men are fighting now, on the ground for freedom.
And how long before conscription would be introduced, for girls and young women too?

You don't win a modern war by sending in boatloads of men to slog it out face to face and be killed one at a time or en masse. You don't even win it by firing nuclear missiles at one another.

You win by influencing more people than your enemy does to believe that you are in the right, by persuading them to resist in subtler ways, by resisting yourself all the subtle ways that you are being undermined and infiltrated.

You win by not selling your land piece by piece to wealthy incomers from a land whose leaders have a stated policy of taking over your civilisation.

You win by not buying products from foreign exporters which you could make within your own shores, to local designs, suited to local conditions and using local skills.

You win by treating your producers, both of natural crops and manmade articles, as though they are valuable colleagues, and treating global chain factory-owners as a means to get money from, not as people to be paid money to employ locals to make goods fo the owners to sell and take the profits abroad with them.

You win by making absolutely sure that decision-making within your country is done by the population and its representatives, for the benefit of the whole population, without those decisions being influenced by a fifth column of foreigners with ulterior motives about the outcomes. You further make absolutely sure that the people chosen to represent the population, and the ministers chosen to lead those representatives, are doing so in the interests of the population as a whole and the individuals within in it, not in the interests of their own wealth and power.

If you can do all these things, and choose wise leaders who neither charge impetuously into aggression nor cave in when faced with pressure to conform to what a bully decrees, but can stand firm and out-think and out-talk a wily predator, you will achieve a nation strong enough to follow its own path and not be a victim of war.

It remains to be seen whether this is any longer possible. If it isn't, we are mince.

I hope Bea65 is okay. I have stopped watching the news as it was making me anxious and reading this thread has made me feel anxious