The reason Labour keeps its cards close to its chest.

Wyllow3

Oreo

They must be thickos if they can’t tell the difference.

No, ideologues with fixed notions. Some very bright. and the fact remains that the Palestinians are pushed out of homes, jobs, access to clean water, and the best agricultural and other natural resources. its bitter, and for years and years has been this totally distressing and inhumane process. but that doesn't mean that your blame Jewish people as such as many do not support the Israeli regime.

Donald Trump's support for the military might of the Israeli government didnt help

There are very grey areas when it comes to how much you support Hammas. It has a social service wing, Dawah, and a military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades.

Its a heart breaking conflict, for the Israeli State was set up after the horrors of the holocaust after world War 2, and Great Britain had a hand in it as it was previously British Empire territory and the "solution" imposed upon the Palestinian people. Partly because "we" - or anti semitism in the UK -- didn't want more refugees.

I know the background to the forming of the Israel State.
If these people are not thickos then they’re even worse then.
If they know the difference and still campaign against Jewish people everywhere especially in the UK what does that make them?Calling them bright idealogues is too good for them.
They’re just good ol’ anti-Semites.Glad that Keir Starmer is doing his best to stamp them out of the Party.

growstuff

I believe Uganda was discussed as a possible homeland at one stage - shame that Rwanda was under Belgian control at the time.

I should have gone back to the book and checked ☹️

Not sure the Labour plan of childcare is anything to covet. Socialists need the tax, from all workers, to hand out in benefits. I read a thread, not on here, about the memories of people whose mother were at home during the day and they came home at dinner/lunch time from school, then their mothers were there when they got home, happy days.

They’re just good ol’ anti-Semites.Glad that Keir Starmer is doing his best to stamp them out of the Party.

What a dreadfully black and white world you live in, Oreo.

Anti Zionists aren't anti Semites.

Haha! You have fallen into the same trap MaizieD
I don’t mix up anti-Zionists with anti-Semites.
But I do know that these ‘idealogues’ bright or thick, seem to tar with the same brush the Israel State and what it does, with Jewish people in general which makes them anti-Semitic.
It ain’t hard to spot the difference, so they’re either stupid or just dislike Jews.

growstuff

Having seen comments on Twitter from the "patriots" who support and egg on the thugs who carried out the attack, it seems they are the ones who are unsocialised and have too much time on their hands. I wouldn't mind betting some of them don't show much respect to women either. They're looking for scapegoats for their own inadequacy.

I’d check what’s meant by socialised - it means living in the majority way. Ergo, those objecting are not ‘unsolcialised’ they’ve just acted inappropriately within their normal society.

The ‘patriots’ (interesting choice of word) aren’t at the heart of this issue. It’s those that are being affected on a daily basis by the behaviour of people not living in the majority way.

~Its a heart breaking conflict, for the Israeli State was set up after the horrors of the holocaust after world War 2, and Great Britain had a hand in it as it was previously British Empire territory and the "solution" imposed upon the Palestinian people. Partly because "we" - or anti semitism in the UK -- didn't want more refugees.~

A key point behind the schism in the Israel/Palestine issue is that they was not tradition on land ownership amongst the Arab inhabitants living pre-1945. Hence them being herded into Gaza and so on. I’ve always had some sympathy for their cause, as they lost so much and suffer still. That said, conflict isn’t supported.

The upper part of the above is a partial quote from a post above. I tried to italicise it, but that failed to work!

Allsorts

I really think the reason Labour have kept their cards close to their chest throughout Covid is because there is no easy solution so let the other lot get the job. They never came up with one suggestion but criticised every move..
We are not in a good place, this government has made mistakes, everyone knows that, but we have had Brexit, which was voted for democratically so it had to be implemented at the same time as Covid, which we must live with now. It didn’t help that,people who didn’t want democracy in UK trying to derail the process because they thought those that didn’t vote didn’t understand! What a lot of time and money those cost the country.Challenging democracy which is what every sane person wants.,
There has been a lot done right through all this, the financial help, to help all of us through a crisis, which I am grateful for, to avoid a recession we cannot borrow ourselves anymore out of this. There is light if we hold on and yes Labour will get in next time,as we can’t just have the same party going on and on. Everything runs it’s course.People don’t forget the note left in the treasury, coffers empty, your problem. That sums up Labour to me. They will come in throwing grants and money around and it all starts again,which we will all grab.. Labour is nothing like it was anymore it’s not for the working man, run by people that understand them, it doesn’t bother me anymore because everything just goes full circle, this party or that one., Politics is a dirty business and there’s always those that want to do it. The trouble is we need them as we would all be running round like headless chickens rather than the government.

Allsorts have you been living in a cave in the desert for the last twelve years?

Like Brexit it's water under the bridge. I doubt the Jews could ever be dislodged from Israel and most Arab countries (despite the usual rhetoric) don't want Palestinian refugees whom they perceive to be destabilising 'trouble' (which is why Jordan pushed them out some years ago). It's not inconceivable that keeping the 'victim' position alive suits Hamas, Fatah and other radical groups just as the Right in Israel benefits from the conflict. A solution is not achievable unless the two sides negotiate in good faith. Probably not in my lifetime when I think about how long it took to get the two sides in Northern Ireland to negotiate and it's not over yet.

tricia58

Not sure the Labour plan of childcare is anything to covet. Socialists need the tax, from all workers, to hand out in benefits. I read a thread, not on here, about the memories of people whose mother were at home during the day and they came home at dinner/lunch time from school, then their mothers were there when they got home, happy days.

What ever does this mean?!

ExperiencedNotOld

growstuff

Having seen comments on Twitter from the "patriots" who support and egg on the thugs who carried out the attack, it seems they are the ones who are unsocialised and have too much time on their hands. I wouldn't mind betting some of them don't show much respect to women either. They're looking for scapegoats for their own inadequacy.

I’d check what’s meant by socialised - it means living in the majority way. Ergo, those objecting are not ‘unsolcialised’ they’ve just acted inappropriately within their normal society.

The ‘patriots’ (interesting choice of word) aren’t at the heart of this issue. It’s those that are being affected on a daily basis by the behaviour of people not living in the majority way.

The people who instigated the attacks called themselves "patriots" (most people probably just know them as racist thugs).

I'm perfectly aware what "socialised" means. Unwanted attention from males (or females) is an issue in every "normal" society. It does not mean that every male within societies act inappropriately.

Frankly, I find your attitude bigoted and this post confirms my initial reaction.

growstuff

ExperiencedNotOld

growstuff

Having seen comments on Twitter from the "patriots" who support and egg on the thugs who carried out the attack, it seems they are the ones who are unsocialised and have too much time on their hands. I wouldn't mind betting some of them don't show much respect to women either. They're looking for scapegoats for their own inadequacy.

I’d check what’s meant by socialised - it means living in the majority way. Ergo, those objecting are not ‘unsolcialised’ they’ve just acted inappropriately within their normal society.

The ‘patriots’ (interesting choice of word) aren’t at the heart of this issue. It’s those that are being affected on a daily basis by the behaviour of people not living in the majority way.

The people who instigated the attacks called themselves "patriots" (most people probably just know them as racist thugs).

I'm perfectly aware what "socialised" means. Unwanted attention from males (or females) is an issue in every "normal" society. It does not mean that every male within societies act inappropriately.

Frankly, I find your attitude bigoted and this post confirms my initial reaction.

Do you never ever attempt to imagine the experience suffered by others outside your cosy, self -righteous world?
I know by fact and experience that this can be very much an issue. That fact may not suit your left wing sensibilities.
But suggesting that doesn’t make me right wing/bigoted/ignorant or whatever other insult you choose to fling.
As I say, attack without an iota of evidence - again.

There's a world of difference between economic migrants coming in, young males roaming around with nothing to do who should not be here, than those who are escaping violence and death. Those that pay high sums to get here illegally would not try if refused entry.Those that face persecution cannot get processed because of the others. That is not rascist, it's common sense. However thats in short supply.

Daisy May, how rudely patronising, a typical all response from some one who has nothing to say. There's a lot if you about. The views I have are all relevant to recent events as you well know and an interest in current affairs and politics. I doubt anyone in a Cave would know or be interested in Brexit or Covid or Ukraine.

Apologies for typos, correct when written then a gremlin called predictive text alters them apon pushing send.

ExperiencedNotOld

growstuff

ExperiencedNotOld

growstuff

Having seen comments on Twitter from the "patriots" who support and egg on the thugs who carried out the attack, it seems they are the ones who are unsocialised and have too much time on their hands. I wouldn't mind betting some of them don't show much respect to women either. They're looking for scapegoats for their own inadequacy.

I’d check what’s meant by socialised - it means living in the majority way. Ergo, those objecting are not ‘unsolcialised’ they’ve just acted inappropriately within their normal society.

The ‘patriots’ (interesting choice of word) aren’t at the heart of this issue. It’s those that are being affected on a daily basis by the behaviour of people not living in the majority way.

The people who instigated the attacks called themselves "patriots" (most people probably just know them as racist thugs).

I'm perfectly aware what "socialised" means. Unwanted attention from males (or females) is an issue in every "normal" society. It does not mean that every male within societies act inappropriately.

Frankly, I find your attitude bigoted and this post confirms my initial reaction.

Do you never ever attempt to imagine the experience suffered by others outside your cosy, self -righteous world?
I know by fact and experience that this can be very much an issue. That fact may not suit your left wing sensibilities.
But suggesting that doesn’t make me right wing/bigoted/ignorant or whatever other insult you choose to fling.
As I say, attack without an iota of evidence - again.

Oh dear! You don't know much about my life, do you?

It's never a good idea to assume - you end up looking like an ass!

Allsorts

There's a world of difference between economic migrants coming in, young males roaming around with nothing to do who should not be here, than those who are escaping violence and death. Those that pay high sums to get here illegally would not try if refused entry.Those that face persecution cannot get processed because of the others. That is not rascist, it's common sense. However thats in short supply.

No, it's not common sense. It's racist.

The attack in Knowsley was instigated by a neo-Nazi group called Patriotic Alternative, but I suspect there are some people who can't take off their bigotry specs for long enough to see that.

The extreme right always flourishes when times are tough and immigrants or others can be blamed. Morley’s thugs in the 30’s a case in point.
It’s becoming noticeable on gransnet that those of us who use research or compassion are accused of being left wing/do gooders/having no idea what we are posting about.

Those that pay high sums to get here illegally would not try if refused entry. Those that face persecution cannot get processed because of the others.
How is that racist?

Iam64

tricia58

Not sure the Labour plan of childcare is anything to covet. Socialists need the tax, from all workers, to hand out in benefits. I read a thread, not on here, about the memories of people whose mother were at home during the day and they came home at dinner/lunch time from school, then their mothers were there when they got home, happy days.

What ever does this mean?!

a Tory voter saying that a woman's place is in the home would be my guess

Mollygo

^Those that pay high sums to get here illegally would not try if refused entry. Those that face persecution cannot get processed because of the others.^
How is that racist?

The question I would ask, Mollygo, is how does this even comprise a coherent statement?

It doesn't matter if huge sums of money were paid, or none at all, until the asylum claims are processed we have no idea which are bona fide asylum seekers and which are chancing it.

We don't know which have faced persecution and which haven't until their claims have been processed. You cannot tell by looking at them (though it's clear that our racist posters think that they can).

As some 85% of requests for asylum are granted this leaves few who shouldn't be in the UK and who can be returned to their own country.

It is racist, Mollygo, because it is saying that these non British people are law breaking, cheating and lying. 'Othering' them and classing them as undesirable. All because they are not British.

Looks racist in my book.

Kamiso

MayBee70

I disagree. Unlike most politicians Keir has made it clear that at times of national crisis he will support the government in every way possible. Here we go again, the note left in the treasury. I mentioned that on another thread. It was a joke. It’s what government departments do. It should never have been waved around by Cameron. But he did know that people were gullible enough to not realise it had been a joke!

A very sick joke in that case for many of us! Not even remotely funny and horrifying for most of the population.

After a GE in America when there is a change of govt the outgoing party has been known to leave similar notes for the incomers.

tricia58

Not sure the Labour plan of childcare is anything to covet. Socialists need the tax, from all workers, to hand out in benefits. I read a thread, not on here, about the memories of people whose mother were at home during the day and they came home at dinner/lunch time from school, then their mothers were there when they got home, happy days.

When I was at infants' school I didn't like the school lunches. I was asked what we ate at home. Thinking that I was being asked what was my favourite food I answered fish and chips and pancakes. The head called my parents in to castigate them for not feeding me properly. With 3 children younger then me my mum had to take the others with her when she walked me to and from school.

They were happy days I suppose when my mum was at home when I got home from school. But as we grew older she preferred to go out to work which she did from 1962 until she found the work too difficult (early onset dementia) and had to stop.

Nowadays women have a choice to stay at home with children, to go out to work or to have a family and a job. I'm glad that there is a choice.