The reason Labour keeps its cards close to its chest.

It doesn’t say anything of the sort, except in your book. Where does it mention lying cheating or even law breaking. Although I’m not sure if the latter doesn’t apply to illegalimmigrants.
It says that the increasing numbers of people who are (paying huge sums) entering the country illegally are partly the cause of the hold up in processing those who don’t.
Sympathy from what they’re trying to escape from would be better expressed by admitting them through legal means. And then processing their claims.
Do you think that would stop the channel crossings? What do you propose?
Then again, I really felt for that family who had come through proper channels but were housed in what they felt was inadequate accommodation.

How many times?????? The people on boats are not illegal immigrants. Despite what the Home Secretary or poisonous people like Farage tell you.

HousePlantQueen

How many times?????? The people on boats are not illegal immigrants. Despite what the Home Secretary or poisonous people like Farage tell you.

It's no good. They don't listen and they don't want to listen. International law on asylum seekers means absolutely nothing to them and the fact that the UK deliberately has closed down legal means for asylum seekers to reach us and are deliberately, disgracefully, inflaming the situation is ignored.

Bloody Brexit and bloody tories. I hate them both. Unleashed horror in my country.

Asylum seekers entering the country how?

Mollygo

Asylum seekers entering the country how?

Just Google it, or read the thread if you can stomach the truth; this government are lying, have lied and will continue to lie about the migrant situation. Maybe think like this person;

Those in the super yachts want you to believe that those in the dinghies are a threat

Don't fall for it.

Clare Short blasts Starmer's Stalinism

On Not the Andrew Marr Show

Now what do you think of Starmer and his Labour Party
m.youtube.com/watch?v=GfjnxYzI1v4

Grany

Clare Short blasts Starmer's Stalinism

On Not the Andrew Marr Show

Now what do you think of Starmer and his Labour Party
m.youtube.com/watch?v=GfjnxYzI1v4

Personally I think he is doing ok. To be honest a post by you or an interview with Clare Short seems to me to be just far-left (or worse) propaganda, but I doubt that will stop you.

DaisyAnne

Grany

Clare Short blasts Starmer's Stalinism

On Not the Andrew Marr Show

Now what do you think of Starmer and his Labour Party
m.youtube.com/watch?v=GfjnxYzI1v4

Personally I think he is doing ok. To be honest a post by you or an interview with Clare Short seems to me to be just far-left (or worse) propaganda, but I doubt that will stop you.

Agreed.

Thirdid 🌞

Fourth in line

Not sure I agree. I've always thought that a bit of extremism is needed to get things done. They'll never be 'done' to the satisfaction of the extremists (look at the Brexit extremists ) but we need something to give us a shove in the right direction... Otherwise nothing changes.

Not sure you’re right there MaizieD. I think you need a new broom regime sometimes, with leaders who come in, re-evaluate, and see a situation differently, acting as a catalyst for change. That’s very different to extremism.

Casdon

Not sure you’re right there MaizieD. I think you need a new broom regime sometimes, with leaders who come in, re-evaluate, and see a situation differently, acting as a catalyst for change. That’s very different to extremism.

It's not a question of right or wrong and it can be achieved in a number of ways. I'm not thinking of it in a purely political context either. But it always, IME, the 'extremes' who get things moving.

( different from)

MaizieD

Not sure I agree. I've always thought that a bit of extremism is needed to get things done. They'll never be 'done' to the satisfaction of the extremists (look at the Brexit extremists ) but we need something to give us a shove in the right direction... Otherwise nothing changes.

Abraham Lincoln said, "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we lose our freedoms it will be because we have destroyed ourselves from within."

I think that applies to political parties as well.

The problem with using extremists to "get things done", as you put it, is that what is "done" rarely achieves the original aim as an outcome and is often destructive. It then still takes just as long as it would have without the extremism to turn it into the good it purported to support.

I also find I quite like democracy. That can disappear very quickly under extremists.

MaizieD

Casdon

Not sure you’re right there MaizieD. I think you need a new broom regime sometimes, with leaders who come in, re-evaluate, and see a situation differently, acting as a catalyst for change. That’s very different to extremism.

It's not a question of right or wrong and it can be achieved in a number of ways. I'm not thinking of it in a purely political context either. But it always, IME, the 'extremes' who get things moving.

( different from)

It’s an interesting subject. I think we’re seeing an example of it playing out now with the Government. Extremist views may prevail for short periods, but fundamentally they don’t accord with the views of the majority who sit in the centre ground, so are doomed to fail. Long term I think they damage, but don’t change the order. Maybe though they do crystallise views so people are clearer about what they aren’t prepared to put up with. I still think it’s the new brooms who create sustainable change.
Specifically with Grany’s ‘Starmer hate’ posts, most of us have reached a state of ennui I think.

MaizieD

Casdon

Not sure you’re right there MaizieD. I think you need a new broom regime sometimes, with leaders who come in, re-evaluate, and see a situation differently, acting as a catalyst for change. That’s very different to extremism.

It's not a question of right or wrong and it can be achieved in a number of ways. I'm not thinking of it in a purely political context either. But it always, IME, the 'extremes' who get things moving.

( different from)

It sounds as if you have grasped yet another theory Maizie. This time it is the one that declares that it is the disruptor who produces change. Perhaps you should discuss this with the man who sees himself as the Great Disruptor, Boris Johnson.

DaisyAnne

MaizieD

Casdon

Not sure you’re right there MaizieD. I think you need a new broom regime sometimes, with leaders who come in, re-evaluate, and see a situation differently, acting as a catalyst for change. That’s very different to extremism.

It's not a question of right or wrong and it can be achieved in a number of ways. I'm not thinking of it in a purely political context either. But it always, IME, the 'extremes' who get things moving.

( different from)

It sounds as if you have grasped yet another theory Maizie. This time it is the one that declares that it is the disruptor who produces change. Perhaps you should discuss this with the man who sees himself as the Great Disruptor, Boris Johnson.

Oh, get lost, DaisyAnne.

How did workers get improved terms and conditions if it wasn't for the 'extremist' trade unions?

Or women get the vote?

You're too focussed on attacking me to even bother to think about what I'm saying.

Poorly paid and long hours ……

I have voted Labour since Keir Starmer was a schoolboy. Now he tells me that people like me are no longer welcome.
Why?
Because I want a water company not to put raw sewage in our waterways?
Because I want us all to be warm enough in our homes?
Because I think education is valuable in itself?
Because I dont want to give more money to private health companies?

These are extremist views?
Really?

The Labour Party isn’t the party of our youth because the country isn’t the same place. Otherwise we would still be fighting to keep coal mines open. Just because it’s having to move with the times doesn’t mean that the core values have been thrown out completely. I still have complete faith in Keir.

MayBee70

The Labour Party isn’t the party of our youth because the country isn’t the same place. Otherwise we would still be fighting to keep coal mines open. Just because it’s having to move with the times doesn’t mean that the core values have been thrown out completely. I still have complete faith in Keir.

Yes. Not complete faith, but adequate.

I went out canvassing for the 2019 elections btw on the doorstep for the L Party. Corbin was a real embarrassment except for a tiny number of fans..

His policies, tho many individual ones admirable, taken as a whole the "shopping list/take it all or leave it" seen as unrealistic and arrogant. He was ambiguous on Brexit, pleasing no one.

Ilovecheese

I have voted Labour since Keir Starmer was a schoolboy. Now he tells me that people like me are no longer welcome.
Why?
Because I want a water company not to put raw sewage in our waterways?
Because I want us all to be warm enough in our homes?
Because I think education is valuable in itself?
Because I dont want to give more money to private health companies?

These are extremist views?
Really?

I don't recall seeing or hearing comments on those subjects from KS. Surely it's what everyone wants (apart from the shareholders of the water and private healthcare companies.

Of course we do in the. Go to Labour Party press release page or read what your local labour MP is saying. Talk to active LP members and ask them!

Ilovecheese

I have voted Labour since Keir Starmer was a schoolboy. Now he tells me that people like me are no longer welcome.
Why?
Because I want a water company not to put raw sewage in our waterways?
Because I want us all to be warm enough in our homes?
Because I think education is valuable in itself?
Because I dont want to give more money to private health companies?

These are extremist views?
Really?

What Starmer said was:

Today is an important moment in the history of the Labour Party. It has taken many, many months of hard work and humility to get here.

It has meant rebuilding trust, not just with the Jewish community, but with all those who were rightly appalled by the culture of the party under the previous leadership.

When I became leader, I said I would turn Labour around and give it back to the British people.

The most important and urgent part of that was in tearing out antisemitism by its roots.

Antisemitism is an evil and no political party that cultivates it deserves to hold power.

I said from the start that we would be judged not on our own terms but by the return of those who felt they could no longer support us.

The first step on that journey was to accept the findings of the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

But it was deeper than that because we also had to make clear that there was no space for anyone who didn’t do the same.

That is as true today as it was then.

Let me be very clear: those who seek to blame others or downplay what happened in our party are, themselves, part of the problem and we will have zero patience or tolerance of that.

Having accepted the Commission’s report, the onus was then on us to begin to right the wrongs of the past.

I am proud to lead a party and a team that have worked tirelessly to do so and it is as a result of that work that I am speaking today.

But while this is an important moment it is not one for celebration. It is one for reflection.

On how a party that has always prided itself on its anti-racism, its commitment to equality, its belief in a better, fairer Britain could have fallen so far as to betray its own principles, as well as the principles of the country.

This is also a moment to apologise once again.

To all those who were hurt, to all those who were let down, to all those driven out of our party, who no longer felt it was their home, who suffered the most appalling abuse.

Today, on behalf of the entire Labour Party, I say: sorry.

What you have been through can never be undone. Apologies alone cannot make it right. But just as I promised to take this issue head on.

Today, I make you a number of further promises: Firstly, that under my leadership there will zero tolerance of antisemitism, of racism, of discrimination of any kind.

And secondly, that every day I will work ceaselessly to bring this party back to the British people.

Be in no doubt: the job of restoring Labour is not complete. Not even close.

I don’t see today’s announcement as the end of the road. I see it as a signpost that we are heading in the right direction.

I feel humbled when I think of all those who have tirelessly dedicated themselves to getting Labour back on track.

All those inside and outside the party who have made it their mission to restore, renew and rebuild Labour on behalf of the country.

It is thanks to them that we can say firmly, proudly, confidently: The Labour Party has changed.

Not because it was convenient to do so, not by fiddling around the edges, not just until the next person to lead the party comes along.

But permanently, fundamentally, irrevocably.

We have changed from a party that looked inwards to a party that meets the public gaze.

From a party of dogma to a party of patriotism. From a party of protest to a party of public service.

Change is never easy. And I understand that some people won’t like the changes we’ve made.

But I say this with all candour: The Labour Party is unrecognisable from 2019 and it will never go back.

It will never again be a party captured by narrow interests.

It will never again lose sight of its purpose or its morals. And it will never again be brought to its knees by racism or bigotry.

If you don’t like that, if you don’t like the changes we have made, I say the door is open and you can leave.

But to all those who can see we have changed for the better, and are excited about doing even more.

To all those who dream of a Britain that is fairer, greener, more dynamic.

To all those who want to make this great country, greater still I say the door is open.

Come in. Make us your home again.

Working together, I believe we can do great things for our country.

I believe we can be a force for good. And that starts today.

No one knows better than me that there is much still to do.

That is why my third promise to you today is that I will not rest for a moment until the job of changing the Labour Party for the better — and then the job of changing our country for the better — are complete.

Thank you.

Please tell me where any of the twaddle you "quote" is in that speech.

MaizieD

DaisyAnne

MaizieD

Casdon

Not sure you’re right there MaizieD. I think you need a new broom regime sometimes, with leaders who come in, re-evaluate, and see a situation differently, acting as a catalyst for change. That’s very different to extremism.

It's not a question of right or wrong and it can be achieved in a number of ways. I'm not thinking of it in a purely political context either. But it always, IME, the 'extremes' who get things moving.

( different from)

It sounds as if you have grasped yet another theory Maizie. This time it is the one that declares that it is the disruptor who produces change. Perhaps you should discuss this with the man who sees himself as the Great Disruptor, Boris Johnson.

Oh, get lost, DaisyAnne.

How did workers get improved terms and conditions if it wasn't for the 'extremist' trade unions?

Or women get the vote?

You're too focussed on attacking me to even bother to think about what I'm saying.

No move towards moderation from you then Maizie

Women did not get the vote because of the suffragettes - the extremists of the suffrage movement. They may have helped to get the first stage through - them and the war - but that gave additional voting rights to men who didn't have it too. The 1918 Representation of the People Act extended the vote to all men over 21 and women over 30 who were householders. There was still a long way to go. The other, more than half of women, did not get the vote on equal terms to men for another 10 years. Most historians put this down to the long-term moderate campaigning of the suffragists.

But it's a better story to say it was the suffragettes "what did it", isn't it?