Sunak has used a lot of Political Credit on sorting out the Northern Ireland Protocol deal ...

Yes the destruction of the Erasmus scheme ( U.K. students being sent home before the end of their courses, U.K. universities loosing out on EU students and funding) was one of the ridiculous non-benefits of Brexit.My brothers nephew, a top physics student got a scholarship from his Italian university to study abroad. His English is excellent and he would have liked to study in the U.K. Because of Brexit he was unable to do this. He is now studying in the Netherlands, where he can use his English.

I might be incorrect, but wasn't it mainly retirees who voted to leave, to the tune of around two thirds? Maybe Mamie anyone over 65 shouldn't have been allowed to vote at all because it doesn't seem they were thinking about their grandchildren's future, (or about the fate of their peers who wished to retire abroad).

I might be incorrect, but wasn't it mainly retirees who voted to leave, to the tune of around two thirds?

Certainly a large proportion of the over 60s voted Leave. I think that, being mostly retired and settled in life they really didn't consider the advantages that being in the EU offered to younger people who were still working or in education.

I still haven't got over the stunning selfishness of those who enjoyed all the advantages EU membership offered then denying them to the younger generations, and who can't even bring themselves to apologise now that Brexit, has predicted, has gone pear shaped.

Joseanne

I might be incorrect, but wasn't it mainly retirees who voted to leave, to the tune of around two thirds? Maybe Mamie anyone over 65 shouldn't have been allowed to vote at all because it doesn't seem they were thinking about their grandchildren's future, (or about the fate of their peers who wished to retire abroad).

Yes the data shows that Brexit voting was higher in older people, but the greater factor was a lower level of further or higher education. This will partly be the case because of lower provision in their youth.
Anecdotally I do know of people who supported Brexit, but asked their grandchildren what they wanted and then vored remain.

I have always suspected that xenophobia had a large part in the decision making process of those who voted Leave.

Mamie

Joseanne

I might be incorrect, but wasn't it mainly retirees who voted to leave, to the tune of around two thirds? Maybe Mamie anyone over 65 shouldn't have been allowed to vote at all because it doesn't seem they were thinking about their grandchildren's future, (or about the fate of their peers who wished to retire abroad).

Yes the data shows that Brexit voting was higher in older people, but the greater factor was a lower level of further or higher education. This will partly be the case because of lower provision in their youth.
Anecdotally I do know of people who supported Brexit, but asked their grandchildren what they wanted and then vored remain.

Oh, goodness, Mamie!. Don't mention the statistical fact about educational levels of Leave voters It provokes howls of outrage and accusations of Remain voters calling them stupid.

Mind you, the very fact that they don't appear to be able to understand statistics says a great deal...

You'd think that if older people were aware that they had been short changed on education and opportunities in comparison in their own youth, they would have automatically voted to remain in the EU for their offspring.
Was it to safeguard their own pensions or something?

Joseanne

You'd think that if older people were aware that they had been short changed on education and opportunities in comparison in their own youth, they would have automatically voted to remain in the EU for their offspring.
Was it to safeguard their own pensions or something?

Personally I think we had a better more realistic education, the high pressure education today where university is the aim, suits the top 25%, which means that there are a lot more that are disappointed, than previously. Their prospects are being inflated far beyond their realistic capabilities.

There no doubt that my generation has had a much better life than my children’s generation is having.

Joseanne

You'd think that if older people were aware that they had been short changed on education and opportunities in comparison in their own youth, they would have automatically voted to remain in the EU for their offspring.
Was it to safeguard their own pensions or something?

I suspect that, because they never had access to those opportunities in their youth (and let's not forget that only 5% went to university, though other forms of tertiary education did exist) they just didn't appreciate how much they benefitted and were valued by those who did have access. Or it just didn't occur to them that it had any value.

And the Leave campaigns managed to whip up a fine bit of class warfare with Leave voters triumphantly putting one over those middle class toffs who wanted their children to go to foreign unis and be able to work in ski resorts in the winter...

Katie59

Joseanne

You'd think that if older people were aware that they had been short changed on education and opportunities in comparison in their own youth, they would have automatically voted to remain in the EU for their offspring.
Was it to safeguard their own pensions or something?

Personally I think we had a better more realistic education, the high pressure education today where university is the aim, suits the top 25%, which means that there are a lot more that are disappointed, than previously. Their prospects are being inflated far beyond their realistic capabilities.

There no doubt that my generation has had a much better life than my children’s generation is having.

What relevance is that to the fact that more older people voted Leave than voted Remain?

Add in quite a lot of ‘the golden glow of the past’ syndrome.

Maisie

“What relevance is that to the fact that more older people voted Leave than voted Remain?”

Did you not see that it was in response to the comment about education, I think we had a better education than present.

Casdon

Add in quite a lot of ‘the golden glow of the past’ syndrome.

Nothing about “golden glow” it is a fact that young families are having a much tougher time than we had, whatever their income level.

Katie59

Casdon

Add in quite a lot of ‘the golden glow of the past’ syndrome.

Nothing about “golden glow” it is a fact that young families are having a much tougher time than we had, whatever their income level.

I don’t think you understood my point Katie59. I meant those who voted for Brexit did so because they had an inaccurate, rosy memory of how things ‘used to be’.

Katie59

Casdon

Add in quite a lot of ‘the golden glow of the past’ syndrome.

Nothing about “golden glow” it is a fact that young families are having a much tougher time than we had, whatever their income level.

So how does that explain the majority of over 65s voting Leave?

Urmstongran

Please do not put words in my mouth Fleurpepper! I think ‘traitors’ is an unnecessarily inflammatory term. I just said they’d ‘bailed’. Or planned to. My vote could not possibly square the circle for every retiree’s choices. I based MY vote for MY country. And I’d do it again given the chance.

I only holiday in Europe and chose to buy a holiday home there.
Big difference.

Siope I’m not ignoring you but I’m just tired and about to turn to my bed soon. I will reply to your post tomorrow if I may?

Goodnight all.

'bailed'is very inflammatory. Those people did not 'bail' - they worked hard, all their lives, contibuting to the country in so many ways, paying taxes, etc. Many of those who decided to retire abroad, after those useful lives of service, did not 'bail', they did not turn their back on their country, because they don't love it. For many, it was for a change, a last adventure, more sunshine- and as said, for a house they could afford, and could have never afforded in the UK. For many houses bought a long time ago, and that they have spent years and years and all their savings to renovate, as well as a ot of elbow grease and sweat, to retire to. And now find that it is just not so easy than it was.

Mamie, please remind me, can retirees now benefit from S1?

“So how does that explain the majority of over 65s voting Leave?”

It doesn’t, it’s probably due to more conservative attitudes as we get older, but that obviously apply to the majority of GN users.

Fleurpepper

Urmstongran

Please do not put words in my mouth Fleurpepper! I think ‘traitors’ is an unnecessarily inflammatory term. I just said they’d ‘bailed’. Or planned to. My vote could not possibly square the circle for every retiree’s choices. I based MY vote for MY country. And I’d do it again given the chance.

I only holiday in Europe and chose to buy a holiday home there.
Big difference.

Siope I’m not ignoring you but I’m just tired and about to turn to my bed soon. I will reply to your post tomorrow if I may?

Goodnight all.

'bailed'is very inflammatory. Those people did not 'bail' - they worked hard, all their lives, contibuting to the country in so many ways, paying taxes, etc. Many of those who decided to retire abroad, after those useful lives of service, did not 'bail', they did not turn their back on their country, because they don't love it. For many, it was for a change, a last adventure, more sunshine- and as said, for a house they could afford, and could have never afforded in the UK. For many houses bought a long time ago, and that they have spent years and years and all their savings to renovate, as well as a ot of elbow grease and sweat, to retire to. And now find that it is just not so easy than it was.

Mamie, please remind me, can retirees now benefit from S1?

Yes, when they reach (OAP) retirement age if they were resident before the end of the transition period. Not if they moved afterwards.
Anyone who has worked in France and paid cotisations for any length of time will be in the French system and France will be their "competent state". The catch-all French PUMA system for health cover will still be available to new arrivals from the UK.

I’m guessing that the GN demographic would tend to veer towards the more articulate, technologically capable, politically aware, and dare I say it has % of those with higher education than the average for their age group. ( that’s just an observation as we don’t have the full facts) .

Katie59

“So how does that explain the majority of over 65s voting Leave?”

It doesn’t, it’s probably due to more conservative attitudes as we get older, but that obviously apply to the majority of GN users.

I still don't understand. What does 'more conservative attitudes as we get older' have to do with voting to leave the EU?

'Conservative' is usually about maintaining the status quo, not overturning it.

For many it was ........ for a house they could afford, and could have never afforded in the UK. That is the most short sighted, misguided reason ever to move abroad in retirement. I've witnessed it several times, and ironically it buys straight into the idea that owning a bigger or better property is what life is all about.

Anyone who has worked in France and paid cotisations for any length of time will be in the French system I am hoping this might also apply to returnees in retirement, Mamie, though the paperwork involved will no doubt be mountainous. Somewhere I have a French pension floating around there too. Nothing has ever been simple.

Joseanne

^Anyone who has worked in France and paid cotisations for any length of time will be in the French system^ I am hoping this might also apply to returnees in retirement, Mamie, though the paperwork involved will no doubt be mountainous. Somewhere I have a French pension floating around there too. Nothing has ever been simple.

It used to depend on where you had paid the majority of your contributions, so if it was France they arranged for your UK contributions to be transferred to your French pension and vice versa. I don't know how it works since Brexit, but there will be a forum on Facebook (not sure if it is still RIFT).
And yes to the heavy dossier. The one for our original Titre de Séjour was six inches thick and leasing a new car last year was 200 pages to sign (more than buying a house).
Bon courage. 😂🇫🇷

Mamie

Fleurpepper

Urmstongran

Please do not put words in my mouth Fleurpepper! I think ‘traitors’ is an unnecessarily inflammatory term. I just said they’d ‘bailed’. Or planned to. My vote could not possibly square the circle for every retiree’s choices. I based MY vote for MY country. And I’d do it again given the chance.

I only holiday in Europe and chose to buy a holiday home there.
Big difference.

Siope I’m not ignoring you but I’m just tired and about to turn to my bed soon. I will reply to your post tomorrow if I may?

Goodnight all.

'bailed'is very inflammatory. Those people did not 'bail' - they worked hard, all their lives, contibuting to the country in so many ways, paying taxes, etc. Many of those who decided to retire abroad, after those useful lives of service, did not 'bail', they did not turn their back on their country, because they don't love it. For many, it was for a change, a last adventure, more sunshine- and as said, for a house they could afford, and could have never afforded in the UK. For many houses bought a long time ago, and that they have spent years and years and all their savings to renovate, as well as a ot of elbow grease and sweat, to retire to. And now find that it is just not so easy than it was.

Mamie, please remind me, can retirees now benefit from S1?

Yes, when they reach (OAP) retirement age if they were resident before the end of the transition period. Not if they moved afterwards.
Anyone who has worked in France and paid cotisations for any length of time will be in the French system and France will be their "competent state". The catch-all French PUMA system for health cover will still be available to new arrivals from the UK.

Yes, I thought so. S1 allowed retirees (of uk official retirement age, not early retired) to have free treatment in France, and also to be able to access treatment in the UK. Good to know that Puma will still be available for those arriving after the transition period. How does that work? And will it work for all EU countries?

I know that although most stupid people voted Leave, not all Leave voters were stupid.

Seven years on from the fraudulent referendum, ,most of the more intelligent Leave voters have admitted that they were misled.