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I fear the rise of National Conservatism

(284 Posts)
DaisyAnne Mon 24-Apr-23 11:12:25

I have disliked the direction the Conservatives have taken but this is such a stark reflection of the 1930s that I fear it.

Not heard of them? This New Statesman Podcast by Andrew Marr may help you understand who and what they are.

They are holding a conference next month (15 - 17 May). Speakers are to include Jacob Rees Mogg, Michael Gove, Suella Braverman and Danny Kruger. There will be lots of our Union flags, apparently. GB News also seems strongly represented.

Marr is a very knowledgeable man, so can give a much better explanation about where this Nationalist party has come from and why, than I can.

He does explain what the Labour Party are offering - a stronger state built on less centralisation - in reply to the perceived problems that have given the extreme right power around the world to revive nationalism. (He is going to do an analysis of the left in this series)

He also explains the roots of this party, as shown by its website nationalconservatism.org/ and summarises what this means to Rishi Sunak and to the left.

Please watch it before you reply, and don't just guess what it is about. We should both know and understand what this is about and where it is coming from.

mousemac Wed 26-Apr-23 13:27:47

I think it's a bit late to be fearing them; they've been in situ for quite some time.
And unless enough people realise the gravity of our situation and vote for anyone who can unseat a Tory when they get the chance, there might never be another chance.

ronib Wed 26-Apr-23 13:28:05

Growstuff I don’t suppose anyone on this forum has worked for the Civil Service very recently but it has changed considerably. One particular department has a particularly woke attitude and sacked a contractor for making a fairly innocent comment about women. It’s a world unto itself. The idea that the wokist element in the Civil Service would take on board any of the declarations of New Conservatism is laughable.

Germanshepherdsmum Wed 26-Apr-23 13:29:32

Thank you volver.

growstuff Wed 26-Apr-23 13:30:42

Germanshepherdsmum

‘the new conservatives’ and ‘new conservatism’ are not the same thing. This organisation is National Conservatism - another thing altogether. The connotations of the word ‘National’ are particularly worrying

OK! Point taken, but if you delve a bit, they do have an almost identical agenda. New conservatism was behind Trump's "Make America Great Again". It's nationalistic because it rejects globalisation. In some ways that can work in the US because it's such a vast country with almost all the resources it needs within its own borders.

It piggy backs "nationalism" with all the nasty side and plays into the idea that being critical of one's own country/government is anti-patriotic. It rejects ideas of international co-operation and is strangely quiet about international trade.

It's fundamentally a culture battle against liberalism rather than a blueprint for successful economics, which ultimately control people's lives.

growstuff Wed 26-Apr-23 13:32:03

ronib

Growstuff I don’t suppose anyone on this forum has worked for the Civil Service very recently but it has changed considerably. One particular department has a particularly woke attitude and sacked a contractor for making a fairly innocent comment about women. It’s a world unto itself. The idea that the wokist element in the Civil Service would take on board any of the declarations of New Conservatism is laughable.

Maybe not, but some of us do have family members and friends who still do work at SCS level.

AmberSpyglass Wed 26-Apr-23 13:35:20

If the contractor’s comment was innocent, he wouldn’t have been fired. If it was sexist, as I assume it was, they’re well rid of him.

Germanshepherdsmum Wed 26-Apr-23 13:35:42

They have been in situ for some time but not prominent here mousemac. They are now endeavouring to get a higher profile here. They are not the Tory party. Voting for anyone is really not a good idea. That’s exactly how people like this lot get a foothold. A lot of people voted for Farage, though not enough to get him a seat - now he’s a supporter of this organisation, which would have done well in 1930s Germany.

ronib Wed 26-Apr-23 13:41:30

AmberSpyglass

If the contractor’s comment was innocent, he wouldn’t have been fired. If it was sexist, as I assume it was, they’re well rid of him.

aAmberSpyglass Well this particular department had great difficulty hanging on to its contractors - I don’t think for one minute that every contractor is sexist! Then again sexism is upto individual interpretation.

Also I remember the refrain - “it’s impossible to get anyone to do any work”. It’s in need of drastic change.

MaizieD Wed 26-Apr-23 13:42:47

I'm posting the link to National Conservatism again, just in case people miss it...

nationalconservatism.org/national-conservatism-a-statement-of-principles/

growstuff Wed 26-Apr-23 13:44:09

I agree with you GSM. We have a political vacuum and that's exactly what they'll exploit. Personally, I wouldn't ever vote Conservative, but voting for an unknown maverick who seems to support "outsiders" is a recipe for disaster.

Germanshepherdsmum Wed 26-Apr-23 13:45:50

Thanks Maizie. A lot of people don’t seem to have done their homework before posting. I don’t know how many times I have to say This Is Not The Tory Party - though worryingly some of its senior members seem far too interested for my liking.

CBBL Wed 26-Apr-23 14:21:14

This organisation is one I had not previously heard of, and which sounds very worrying indeed! The link with America and radical Christian connections (which are not Christian at all given the hatred that is pervasive within them) is also a concern.

As if we don't already have enough to worry about.

Thank you for the "heads up" DaisyAnne!

HousePlantQueen Wed 26-Apr-23 14:42:56

MaizieD

^I am not allowing this constant smearing of Conservatism by scare stories like this.^

I don't think you have power to stop it, Anniel

Agreed. And your threatening tone is very unpleasant too. How appropriate, given your stated political beliefs.

HousePlantQueen Wed 26-Apr-23 14:48:27

It piggy backs "nationalism" with all the nasty side and plays into the idea that being critical of one's own country/government is anti-patriotic

similar accusations were made on here to those of us who did not vote for Brexit.

I agree GSM, maybe everyone should have another read at the links, too many people leaping to ill informed conclusions; I read it twice.

chrissy08 Wed 26-Apr-23 14:49:04

So being anti abortion, pro Christian, pro family values, pro Great Britain, is chilling!?? This country is run by the WEF & if you agree to own nothing, not your house, not your car, or have basic human rights to family, proper food & housing that is what you are supporting. I care about my grandchildren’s future & will oppose anything to do with that cult.

Gundy Wed 26-Apr-23 14:50:05

The word “National” does carry a heavy connotation of white supremacy, anti-semitism here in the US, which is part of Trump’s MAGA movement. The Evangelicals here are giving Christianity a bad name. They don’t operate by Christian principles.

Seems like every country is infected now. It is a contagion that was not squelched after WWII (been around in some form for centuries) and has ramped up and is spreading in intensity again world-wide.

You bet, it’s a concern!! It’s a scourge. All democracies are on alert. It’s up to me/you/us to help stamp it out by voting - locally grass-roots and on up.
Vote!
USA Gundy

Germanshepherdsmum Wed 26-Apr-23 14:54:24

I have no idea what you’re trying to say Chrissy. Sorry but I just don’t understand.

HousePlantQueen Wed 26-Apr-23 14:57:35

I think one of the worst aspects of this is the name of the movement; National has regrettable connotations of course, but, as we have read on here, many people will confuse Conservatism with Conservative, and given the names of some of the attendees, who can blame them.

Germanshepherdsmum Wed 26-Apr-23 15:03:03

Agreed.

Plunger Wed 26-Apr-23 15:44:26

How unbiased is Andrew Marr? He was formerly a Moaist and known as Red Andy at Cambridge. Was a member of the Socialist Campaign for Labour victory ( aka Alluance for Workers Liberty) a pressure group set up by the Labour party.
I look forward to his unbiased analysis of the left 🤔

growstuff Wed 26-Apr-23 15:50:37

Plunger

How unbiased is Andrew Marr? He was formerly a Moaist and known as Red Andy at Cambridge. Was a member of the Socialist Campaign for Labour victory ( aka Alluance for Workers Liberty) a pressure group set up by the Labour party.
I look forward to his unbiased analysis of the left 🤔

So what was biased about his analysis?

growstuff Wed 26-Apr-23 15:52:09

chrissy08

So being anti abortion, pro Christian, pro family values, pro Great Britain, is chilling!?? This country is run by the WEF & if you agree to own nothing, not your house, not your car, or have basic human rights to family, proper food & housing that is what you are supporting. I care about my grandchildren’s future & will oppose anything to do with that cult.

And there we have it! The ideology already has support.

MaizieD Wed 26-Apr-23 15:52:44

Plunger

How unbiased is Andrew Marr? He was formerly a Moaist and known as Red Andy at Cambridge. Was a member of the Socialist Campaign for Labour victory ( aka Alluance for Workers Liberty) a pressure group set up by the Labour party.
I look forward to his unbiased analysis of the left 🤔

Andrew Marr is in his early sixties. How long is it since he went to Cambridge? 40 years? How long since he was a Labour activist? hmm

If you don't like Andrew Marr I suggest that you read the link to the Nationalist Conservatives that has been posted twice on this thread now. Then tell us what you think of their ideas...

MaizieD Wed 26-Apr-23 15:54:44

growstuff

chrissy08

So being anti abortion, pro Christian, pro family values, pro Great Britain, is chilling!?? This country is run by the WEF & if you agree to own nothing, not your house, not your car, or have basic human rights to family, proper food & housing that is what you are supporting. I care about my grandchildren’s future & will oppose anything to do with that cult.

And there we have it! The ideology already has support.

I'd rather like to know a bit more about the WEF running this country grin

growstuff Wed 26-Apr-23 15:55:10

HousePlantQueen

*It piggy backs "nationalism" with all the nasty side and plays into the idea that being critical of one's own country/government is anti-patriotic*

similar accusations were made on here to those of us who did not vote for Brexit.

I agree GSM, maybe everyone should have another read at the links, too many people leaping to ill informed conclusions; I read it twice.

I'm not equating them, but I can see the same kind of claims emerging. In a Venn diagram, I have no doubt that there would be a sizeable intersection.