Strictly Cheese Sandwiches

Norah I'm guessing that you're a vegan judging by your list of foods. I agree that avocados can be delicious but increased demand for them has resulted in significant deforestation in Mexico where most of them come from, although Israel is also a supplier.

Almond and other nut butters, apart from peanut are expensive to buy. I looked on Tesco's website and found that almond butter costs £1.56 per 100 gms whereas peanut butter ranges from 45p to £1 per 100 gms. That is quite a difference in price. I suspect that almond butter is more expensive in wholefood/bio shops. It certainly is in one that I occasionally use.

Dinahmo

Norah I'm guessing that you're a vegan judging by your list of foods. I agree that avocados can be delicious but increased demand for them has resulted in significant deforestation in Mexico where most of them come from, although Israel is also a supplier.

Almond and other nut butters, apart from peanut are expensive to buy. I looked on Tesco's website and found that almond butter costs £1.56 per 100 gms whereas peanut butter ranges from 45p to £1 per 100 gms. That is quite a difference in price. I suspect that almond butter is more expensive in wholefood/bio shops. It certainly is in one that I occasionally use.

Yes we are vegan.

Today we had homemade bread, rocket, tomato, fired crispy tofu, auqafabba sandwiches. Quite good, we eat very well, if I do say so.

I also made a new (to me) chutney to eat with. Delish.

Thus no meat, fish, poultry, egg, cheese sandwiches. Yes, almond butter is a bit more than peanut butter, lower in fat, but lower in protein - all trade offs from unacceptable (to us) animal products.

I've noted Spain on Avos, I'll look more carefully. Thank you.

…..a cheese sandwich? It’s hardly beluga caviar, is it?

Give me a cheese sandwich any day. Caviar, ugh!

…some of the people using food banks are nurses.

I’m always puzzled by this. I thought people had to be unemployed and referred by a doctor or minister of religion in order to use a food bank.

maddyone

^…..a cheese sandwich? It’s hardly beluga caviar, is it?^

Give me a cheese sandwich any day. Caviar, ugh!

I agree.

However, it's not really about cheese sandwiches. Even the ONS is reporting that food prices have risen an average of 19% in the last year. "Basic" foodstuffs such as dairy and pasta have risen even more and that's why poorer people are being hit harder than those who buy more "luxury" items.

Despite anecdotal stories about poor people filling their supermarket trolleys with crisps, pizzas and booze, most people on low incomes budget very carefully and they already know all the tricks to save money. They probably don't have anything left at the end of the week/month, so a big increase in food prices will have a knock on effect on what they can spend on rent, heating, travel, utilities, etc. all of which have increased too.

PS. If people can't afford beluga caviar, maybe they could swap to tuna! Unfortunately, the poorest (and others) are already eating tuna.

maddyone

^…some of the people using food banks are nurses.^

I’m always puzzled by this. I thought people had to be unemployed and referred by a doctor or minister of religion in order to use a food bank.

People do generally need to be referred, but they aren't necessarily unemployed.

Norah Did you manage all that for 30p?

Lumiere

Imagine just a few years ago having a discussion about whether eating cheese sandwiches was a luxury to be afforded by the few not the many
The depths of division and poverty that Conservative driven austerity has plunged us into, is indeed palpable
My daughter is a teacher and has taken cereal bars to school for her six year old pupils, for quite a few years, who have had no breakfast and possibly no dinner the night before
She now wraps up sandwiches for their lunch too. Of course, she can ill afford it herself and so we help with her efforts
This is not acceptable in the sixth richest country in the world and trying to somehow justify families going hungry today is beyond disgraceful
I despair

So where are the benefits going? Parents on benefits, or very low pay and therefore getting top up benefits, are supposed to live on that money. All parents on low income get child benefit. CHILD BENEFIT! It’s for the children, the clue is in the name. Then there’s housing benefit, council tax benefit, along with other benefits as appropriate. Not a lot but surely enough to provide toast for breakfast. And don’t forget if families are this poor they also receive free school meals. All children up to the end of Year 2 get free school meals. Nursery and Reception children get free school milk. All primary children get free school fruit. So why is a teacher taking in food for children?

Hetty58

nanna8:

'We were all poor then. Maybe you don't remember?'

No, not all of us - we were rich, but didn't realise it. As kids, we just assumed our families were 'normal' and other people were much the same - both totally, completely wrong.

Absolutely. I was very fortunate my parents were comfortably off and even on just professional salaries (no trust funds) could afford private school fees and yearly foreign holidays, something which even better off families struggle with today. Like you I thought we were “normal” but I know much better now! In fact although I am on the same level of occupation and qualifications than my father was I am worse off than them, two of my children are marginally better off than me while the third with 2 very good salaries coming in is much better off than I. We are all struggling more though at the moment and are acutely aware that there are many many even worse situated.
And lovely lady if no housing cost help is offered to low income families in “better off” areas who will work all the key worker jobs and service industry jobs that we all rely on!

growstuff

Norah Did you manage all that for 30p?

I think so, wonder why 30p, why she chose cheese as filling.

Price of tomato slice, a few rocket leaves, a slice of tofu - if not a sum under 30p quite close. Sandwiches, as you know only use small bits of veg. My shop of tomatoes and rocket will last all week. I drain, press, slice tofu, marinate, spice, fry. Wrap slices. Freeze. A box makes 10 sandwiches.

People who are in low paid employment may have to use their child benefit to pay for their childcare

That’s only if they’re working Jane and I still think parents could give their child a slice of toast before school. I used to teach and although it was a poor area, there were only a very few children who came to school without food. And then we introduced breakfast club. It was free to the children. The parents who didn’t feed breakfast to their children, as I said, it was rare, were usually too disorganised to actually get their children to breakfast club in time either. Parents who don’t feed children is about a lot more than money. And if they don’t work they still get child benefit which is supposed to be used for the children’s needs ie food!

Norah I'm impressed with what you eat, which, to most of us, is not a wide selection of ingredients. Well done to you.

I've often thought that I should be vegetarian but find it difficult to make the final step. I have cut down on the amount of meat that we eat. Probably 60% are vegetarian meals and 40% meat or fish.

I suspect if we are not poor we really have no idea what goes on in the homes of poor people with children. It must be quite hard, perhaps not judging others would do us well?

We all need basic nourishing food, heated homes, clothing, transport - everyone has those needs, or it seems so to me.

Quibbling about cheese, bread, and sandwiches solves nothing, perhaps we need to vote for people who can put good policy in place.

Dinahmo

Norah I'm impressed with what you eat, which, to most of us, is not a wide selection of ingredients. Well done to you.

I've often thought that I should be vegetarian but find it difficult to make the final step. I have cut down on the amount of meat that we eat. Probably 60% are vegetarian meals and 40% meat or fish.

Thank you.

We only became vegan about 10 years ago. Not totally for animal welfare reasons, more for our own healthy bodies.

We actually eat as varied a diet as meat eaters, different protein sources. Somehow people, mistakenly, think there aren't many delicious natural vegetable sourced proteins - but there are.

We do source many herbs, spices, soy sauces - adding flavour.

maddyone

^…some of the people using food banks are nurses.^

I’m always puzzled by this. I thought people had to be unemployed and referred by a doctor or minister of religion in order to use a food bank.

nope.

Norah

I suspect if we are not poor we really have no idea what goes on in the homes of poor people with children. It must be quite hard, perhaps not judging others would do us well?

We all need basic nourishing food, heated homes, clothing, transport - everyone has those needs, or it seems so to me.

Quibbling about cheese, bread, and sandwiches solves nothing, perhaps we need to vote for people who can put good policy in place.

well said, Norah, this is the point.

I suspect there are also regional differences in costs to things, especially rent/mortgage. For example being on a 'normal' wage in an affluent area could be quite a struggle if your rent is £1500 a month compared to someone else on the same wage where rent/mortgage is £500 a month. Everything is relative isn't it?

It does really annoy me that she uses her religion to justify her views on issues she sees fit, like not agreeing with abortion and yet doesn't seem to use her religion to be compassionate and non judgemetal to others.

Luke 6:20-21 (NIV)
“Looking at his disciples, he said: 'Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be satisfied. Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh. '”

Norah

growstuff

Norah Did you manage all that for 30p?

I think so, wonder why 30p, why she chose cheese as filling.

Price of tomato slice, a few rocket leaves, a slice of tofu - if not a sum under 30p quite close. Sandwiches, as you know only use small bits of veg. My shop of tomatoes and rocket will last all week. I drain, press, slice tofu, marinate, spice, fry. Wrap slices. Freeze. A box makes 10 sandwiches.

I really think you have no idea.

For a start tomato and lettuce has almost no nutritional value. Secondly, I suspect tomato, lettuce and tofu does cost more than 30p. Thirdly, these items have increased in price too. Fourthly, the good thing about chees is that it's flexible and will keep in the fridge for a couple of weeks. You can just grate a bit when you need it.

Not only that, but you seem to be missing the point! All foodstuffs have increased in price. If a person is already budgeting and eats cheaply, an extra 19% on the whole budget makes a a huge difference.

Maddyone A slice of toast is hardly nutritious either and needs to be part of a varied diet.

I don't know why you're even trying to argue. The point is that nearly all food has increased in price and the alternatives have increased too.

Norah

Dinahmo

Norah I'm impressed with what you eat, which, to most of us, is not a wide selection of ingredients. Well done to you.

I've often thought that I should be vegetarian but find it difficult to make the final step. I have cut down on the amount of meat that we eat. Probably 60% are vegetarian meals and 40% meat or fish.

Thank you.

We only became vegan about 10 years ago. Not totally for animal welfare reasons, more for our own healthy bodies.

We actually eat as varied a diet as meat eaters, different protein sources. Somehow people, mistakenly, think there aren't many delicious natural vegetable sourced proteins - but there are.

We do source many herbs, spices, soy sauces - adding flavour.

Give me an example of a vegetable protein which doesn't have carbs.

A slice of toast is hardly nutritious either and needs to be part of a varied diet.

Oh I know this growstuff, you are preaching to the converted here. However, I did have a few children in my classes over the years who were not even fed toast before school. When I worked in Early Years I would ask my teaching assistant to give those children milk as soon as they arrived at school. Sometimes a teaching assistant from up the school would arrive and ask if we had spare milk so they could give it to a child in their class who hadn’t eaten. When we opened breakfast club, the children were fed free but it was indeed only toast/cereal. But as I said earlier, it was more complex than that. Often the non fed children were late for school and therefore missed breakfast club. These children’s families often led chaotic lives. Parent didn’t get up so older sibling brought them to school, or parent had his/her own difficulties and forgot to feed children. Or they had no food in the house because they bought drugs with the money. And I could go on. It’s not just about poverty, but these families were definitely poor. It’s about lack of organisation, it’s about social problems, it’s about lack of motivation, it’s about too many children to properly care for, it’s about drugs and alcohol and violence and and and . I could go on, but you get the picture. A piece of toast is actually the best some children could hope for and they didn’t even get that!

If I recall correctly growstuff, you have to avoid carbs. Obviously a cheese sandwich is laden with them. Most people don’t have to avoid carbs, merely limit their intake for health reasons. Why are you picking on Norah’s healthy alternative to a cheese sandwich? Of course tomatoes and lettuce have nutritional value (remember the five a day?) but they are not carbs. You seem to accuse her of lying. An apology is in order.

Well said, maddyone.

I come from a well-organised family of seven (five kids). By the time I had started at secondary school (I was the second oldest) Mum wasn't up by the time I left for school. We older ones got our own breakfast of cornflakes, toast or Readybrek. We had school dinners and came home to a simple cooked tea (beans on toast/something eggy, etc). We were and still are all healthy. Nowt wrong with a carby breakfast to start you off.

Because I had been late on my very first day at the grammar school (I got the same bus as my older brother whose school was further away!), the second morning I rushed out for an earlier bus without eating breakfast.

My dad realised (no empty cornflakes bowl!) made two marmalade sandwiches and brought them in to my registration class at school for me!! So embarassing (but so Good Dad). I never went to school without breakfast again.

growstuff

Norah

Dinahmo

Norah I'm impressed with what you eat, which, to most of us, is not a wide selection of ingredients. Well done to you.

I've often thought that I should be vegetarian but find it difficult to make the final step. I have cut down on the amount of meat that we eat. Probably 60% are vegetarian meals and 40% meat or fish.

Thank you.

We only became vegan about 10 years ago. Not totally for animal welfare reasons, more for our own healthy bodies.

We actually eat as varied a diet as meat eaters, different protein sources. Somehow people, mistakenly, think there aren't many delicious natural vegetable sourced proteins - but there are.

We do source many herbs, spices, soy sauces - adding flavour.

Give me an example of a vegetable protein which doesn't have carbs.

Nuts

JaneJudge -I agree with you absolutely . Her bible seems different from mine. In John 21 Jesus tells us to " feed my lambs". My volunteering at foodbank is my response to this. What is hers?