Strictly Cheese Sandwiches

Quite Blondiescot. Poor little poppets going to school hungry. And then growing up to repeat the cycle.

I thought you were an advocate of the markets found in towns and cities and selling veg very cheaply MOnica? Why suddenly apply supermarket prices? And assume that poor people won’t know what tofu is? How pretentious. No need to be so harsh about Norah’s costed food choices.
My husband is also descended from people who fled the Irish potato famine. We will never know what happened to the family members who didn’t come to England.

Poverty is not restricted to families with children. It affects households of all ages and compositions.

It is children that twang the heart strings, but adults caught in the poverty trap are just as deserving as children.

M0nica (for the) Price of tomato slice, a few rocket leaves, a slice of tofu - if not a sum under 30p quite close. Sandwiches, as you know only use small bits of veg. My weekly shop of tomatoes and rocket will last all week. I drain, press, slice tofu, marinate, spice, fry. Wrap slices. Freeze. A box makes 10 sandwiches.

Comments like the above make me realise what an alternative world so many people on this thread live in and how judgmental they are.

Where in the inner cities and food deprived areas of this country do you find shops selling tofu and bags of rocket at prices that any one trying to feed a family on £50 a week would even think of buying? How many of these families would even know what tofu is or where to buy it?

Well, M0nica, you quoted me, replying to a question of what we eat in sandwiches. The person asked about meatless and cost.

I said what our sandwiches that day consisted of. Quite cheap food one can find anywhere. I also said what our other usual sandwiches contain: "Chick pea salad, avocado fava salad, mushroom and pickled onions, veg and avocado, crispy tofu, hummous peanut or almond butter. Aquafaba mayo (chickpea boiling liquid). Anything really, without meat or cheese."

I stand by what I posted. Not judgmental, a factual answer to what we eat.

Everyone knows tofu, it exists, has for decades. Some may think they don't like tofu, doesn't mean it's not available and reasonable. Same with pulses, dry chick peas, rocket and tomatoes.

Ann Widdecombe made a wrong comment.

I also posted: "I suspect if we are not poor we really have no idea what goes on in the homes of poor people with children. It must be quite hard, perhaps not judging others would do us well?

We all need basic nourishing food, heated homes, clothing, transport - everyone has those needs, or it seems so to me."

"Quibbling about cheese, bread, and sandwiches solves nothing, perhaps we need to vote for people who can put good policy in place."

I've been on my own all week with no Mr D to get shopping in the car, and it has really brought home to me how difficult it is to eat fresh food every day when you can't get to a shop.

I have a fridge and a freezer here, but things like salad can't be frozen and don't last a week even in a fridge. I'm going home for a couple of days and plan to come back on Friday for another week on my own. I have just been doing a Sainsbury order for Mr D to pick up when he drops me off, and I had this thread in my mind when I was populating my list. By far the easiest way is to buy carbs and more carbs, as at least they freeze or keep for long periods. I am trying to keep to a low carb diet just now, so am a bit stuck, and I can afford to pay over the odds for food if I want to. I can buy nutritious items for the main part of a meal, but the accompaniments are much more difficult if I want them to last beyond Tuesday.

As I said upthread, without a car the choice would be to get a bus or a taxi (a bus is not available to me from where I am) and someone on a low income won't have that option. I'll manage, but if I were trying to feed four people with those constraints I don't think I'd be able to do that without bread, potatoes and pasta, and I can see the appeal of a pizza (in fact I would kill for one, although that could be because I've had a very low carb week and I'm missing them )

I have a weekly supermarket delivery which includes salad items, vegetables and fruit for the whole week. Everything keeps well for the week. I have just eaten a salad made with items delivered last Tuesday - perfectly fresh. I never run short or find things are going off. I plan the week’s meals in advance and buy what I will need. No waste.

Lucky you. I find that salad goes off much more quickly since Brexit. Maybe it depends how close you are to the ports where it sits for ages before getting to the shops.

Doodledog Blimey, I have just had a sandwich for lunch which included lettuce and tomatoes that I purchase over two weeks ago, still perfectly fresh and tasty.

I buy fresh veggies every 7-10 days, only very occasionally have they gone past their best during that time.

I’m in north Norfolk Doodledog. Of the salad items I purchased last week only the tomatoes (still perfect and would certainly have lasted longer) were imported. The rest was grown in the UK. All the veg I purchased was also homegrown.

GrannyGravy13

Doodledog Blimey, I have just had a sandwich for lunch which included lettuce and tomatoes that I purchase over two weeks ago, still perfectly fresh and tasty.

I buy fresh veggies every 7-10 days, only very occasionally have they gone past their best during that time.

Same in our kitchen.

We do use more spinach, rocket, kale, cos, cabbage - I think those last better into 2nd week than butterhead or red loose.

Rocket grows well, 8-9 mos a year, trim often - keeps on.

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m in north Norfolk Doodledog. Of the salad items I purchased last week only the tomatoes (still perfect and would certainly have lasted longer) were imported. The rest was grown in the UK. All the veg I purchased was also homegrown.

Agreed. We buy local.

Thankfully all our garden greens are all doing well!

growstuff

But Dickens, it's not just about having knowledge. Many people do have the knowledge to prepare meals on a shoestring budget and have been doing so for years. The fact is that food prices have risen on average 19% over the last year - more if you're already buying the basics - and there just isn't anything spare to cover that cost.

The argument that people don't know how to cook is victim-blaming.

Yes, I do realise that it isn't just a matter of knowing how to cook and how to budget. And I'm aware - isn't everyone on here - of the rise not only in food prices, but utilities, council tax, etc - every damned thing is now more expensive. If you've already cut back to the bone, it means that you simply have to go without certain things - and the choice is usually food. You can starve yourself, but if you don't pay your rent or utility bills, you could end up homeless or cut off.

My point was about those high-profile politicians and others who moralise about the poor suggesting that they are simply leading chaotic lives and don't know how to cook or budget.

Of course, some do lead chaotic lives - for various reasons. So do individuals from affluent families, but they have the cushion of comparative wealth, so don't come under the same scrutiny.

I once went through a period of simply not having enough to live on. I know how to cook, understand food values and can budget. But it's draining and soul-destroying, and there were times after I'd finished work and collected my son from nursery when I hardly had the emotional, mental and physical energy to construct a meal from scratch. Fortunately, it was a short-lived episode, but I dread to think how I'd have coped if it had been long-term, or for an indefinite period. Poverty grinds you down.

And I was lucky - I had a full-time job.

Maybe my fridge has a special rottenator salad compartment then. I can expect some things -spring onions, mushrooms and tomatoes spring to mind - to last a week, but leaves and cucumbers don't, and nor do the tubs of things like endame or other prepared salads - they are often sold with a day or two to go.

And before I hear how everyone else grows their own and would never buy wasteful pots, I am talking about being on my own on a holiday park , and suggesting that this is a similar position to those who also don't have a handy supply of fresh goods or a car to go and get them.

The same applies at home - Mr D has to replenish salad regularly as it just doesn't last. Vegetables are a different matter, but even they don't have the life they used to in my experience, which is all any of us can speak for.

Some things definitely don't keep well. Twice in the past fortnight I've bought carrots from Aldi which have gone mushy within a day or two. I've had the same happen with fruit too - strawberries in particular.

I must have the same kind of salad compartment Doodledog I don't throw much away, although I probably throw almost as many avocados away as I eat. They're expensive in the first place and by the time I've waited for them to ripen, they have sometimes already gone black. If I only want to eat half, the other half doesn't keep that well.

Don't listen to the people who tell you to grow your own. You need space, time and it's not a cheap option. I used to grow much of my own veg (hence my username), but it was just becoming too expensive. One thing I do still grow (and saves me money) is salad leaves. I have three troughs of them and they last me all summer. If I ever have a glut of them, I've discovered that lettuce soup is quite nice.

Sorry Dickens I didn't intend to get at you .

I get irritated by the people who think all the poor have to do is cook from scratch (despite the cost of fuel) and learn how to cook (because they fill their faces with crisps and pizza, presumably ).

Doodledog

Maybe my fridge has a special rottenator salad compartment then. I can expect some things -spring onions, mushrooms and tomatoes spring to mind - to last a week, but leaves and cucumbers don't, and nor do the tubs of things like endame or other prepared salads - they are often sold with a day or two to go.

And before I hear how everyone else grows their own and would never buy wasteful pots, I am talking about being on my own on a holiday park , and suggesting that this is a similar position to those who also don't have a handy supply of fresh goods or a car to go and get them.

The same applies at home - Mr D has to replenish salad regularly as it just doesn't last. Vegetables are a different matter, but even they don't have the life they used to in my experience, which is all any of us can speak for.

Doodledog, Ha. Rottenator.

We grow our veg, of course dependent on weather. Can only expect hardy greens 8-9 mos a year and tomatoes slightly less.

Some veg must be purchased in winter. We're sorting lights for cold weather pots -- should work well next winter.

Norah You are taalakin abiut foodstuffs that simply will not be found in inner city food desserts, nor in there few remaining street markets.

Tofu is made from soya, and that is always in emboldened type in every list of ingredients, along with milk, nuts and several ther items because allergy to these products is so common. my DDiL developed a range of food allergies, after she developed an auto immune disease. She has been issued with an epipen specifically because her soya allergy is so severe. She is also allergic to nuts and fresh fruit. Were she to go vegan, her diet would be very restricted.

growstuff

Sorry Dickens I didn't intend to get at you .

I get irritated by the people who think all the poor have to do is cook from scratch (despite the cost of fuel) and learn how to cook (because they fill their faces with crisps and pizza, presumably ).

Cooking from scratch is a breeze if you've the time, the know-how - and sufficient money!

I would like to add to the point about a wide variety of people struggling to feed themselves, not just families. At the foodbank at which I volunteer, a significant percentage of our parcels go to single people.

Sadly, no cheese in our parcels- so no cheese sandwich. Not sure if Ms Widdecombe approves of that or not.

M0nica

Norah You are taalakin abiut foodstuffs that simply will not be found in inner city food desserts, nor in there few remaining street markets.

Tofu is made from soya, and that is always in emboldened type in every list of ingredients, along with milk, nuts and several ther items because allergy to these products is so common. my DDiL developed a range of food allergies, after she developed an auto immune disease. She has been issued with an epipen specifically because her soya allergy is so severe. She is also allergic to nuts and fresh fruit. Were she to go vegan, her diet would be very restricted.

I never assumed these foods in desserts - I was answering to sandwiches.

I'm aware tofu is soy. As is soy sauce, edamame, tempeh.

I understand some people can't eat soy, various nuts, dairy, gluten. Our children can't eat some raw egg products.

There is tremendous delicious vegan fare beyond foods above.

Nobody is asking anyone to be vegan or even vegetarian. I answered a question to our frugal tasty meals, simple as that.

Glorianny

I've just read through this thread and it brought home to me how little some people know about the way others live.
Being poor today is much worse than it ever was.
You are likely to be living in expensive private rental property instead of a reasonably priced council house.
Your house is liable to be in an area some distance from a decent supermarket and your nearest shop will be an over-priced newsagents which stocks a small range of expensive/carb rich food.
You will pay more for your energy because you are likely to have a coin meter which costs loads more.
Travel by bus is more expensive but if you have a job you will need to use it or have a car.
You will probably be on a zero hours contract at minimum wage

This. As well as spiralling food costs, this unfairness of many things (such as electricity if you have a coin meter) actually cost poorer people MORE, when they are the ones most in need of lower costs.

choughdancer

Glorianny

I've just read through this thread and it brought home to me how little some people know about the way others live.
Being poor today is much worse than it ever was.
You are likely to be living in expensive private rental property instead of a reasonably priced council house.
Your house is liable to be in an area some distance from a decent supermarket and your nearest shop will be an over-priced newsagents which stocks a small range of expensive/carb rich food.
You will pay more for your energy because you are likely to have a coin meter which costs loads more.
Travel by bus is more expensive but if you have a job you will need to use it or have a car.
You will probably be on a zero hours contract at minimum wage

This. As well as spiralling food costs, this unfairness of many things (such as electricity if you have a coin meter) actually cost poorer people MORE, when they are the ones most in need of lower costs.

I've just realised as well that poor people now pay far more in tax because of VAT. Until 1973 purchase tax was only charged on luxury goods, now clothes and shoes for adults and older children are taxed. In fact almost everything is.
It is so completely unfair.

choughdancer

Glorianny

I've just read through this thread and it brought home to me how little some people know about the way others live.
Being poor today is much worse than it ever was.
You are likely to be living in expensive private rental property instead of a reasonably priced council house.
Your house is liable to be in an area some distance from a decent supermarket and your nearest shop will be an over-priced newsagents which stocks a small range of expensive/carb rich food.
You will pay more for your energy because you are likely to have a coin meter which costs loads more.
Travel by bus is more expensive but if you have a job you will need to use it or have a car.
You will probably be on a zero hours contract at minimum wage

This. As well as spiralling food costs, this unfairness of many things (such as electricity if you have a coin meter) actually cost poorer people MORE, when they are the ones most in need of lower costs.

You also pay a higher percentage of your income and/or value of the property in which you live as council tax.