Can a woman have a penis?

VS
I just want a discussion full of actual facts please.
But we have been having a discussion full of actual facts.
Fact: Males can have a penis.
Fact: Females can have a fake penis or a penile prosthesis.
Fact: It doesn’t make them male.
Fact: Calling yourself a woman doesn’t make you female.

I don’t know any transmen who announce that they’ve got a penis. It’s just never come up in conversation, any more than heterosexual people start discussions on which genitalia they have.
It has been a revelation to me that some posters on here enjoy that sort of conversation with their acquaintances.

Now that’s creepy if anything can be so described.

VioletSky

I've reported 2 comments saying that I said or implied something I did not

Something that goes against my character and my values and is abhorrent to me

You will know if I report, I usually say. I only don't say if I report something horrible happening to someone else

Story time

There are 2 forums on gransnet I just can't get on with people on even though I will always reciprocate respectful dialogue

On one of those forums I made friends with a lovely lady. One who was having relationship difficulties. We have each others emails and are still friends to this day.

When she joined the forum she was told all sorts of awful things about me by other members via PM that I'm a "troll" and just here to wind people up that I think bad things about all the other members etc. All completely untrue and unfair.

She saw through that and we have helped each other immeasurably over time and I couldn't be without her

I'm not everyone's cup of tea. I get that. I'm defensive, reactive and have the sense of humour of an 8 year old... I'm autistic and it shows.

But I'm just me. I'm not here to anything, I just want to be able to share my thoughts on things that interest me

That's the truth

I've seen posts from you on other forums dealing with different topics...

... eminently sensible comments from you where it's obvious you've grasped the issue, and have given either sound advice, or a well-thought through opinion. And on a couple of occasions I've 'recommended' your posts - so this is not personal.

It's just on this issue that you seem to be all over the place.

Oh come on! Anyone can read the misrepresentation that has been undertaken.
As I see it, the claims of being misrepresented are coming from VS, and there are several posters saying that no, her comments were read as I read them.

It is a common device used by at least one poster regularly.
Who? It's difficult to respond without knowing who you are talking about, and to which posts you refer.

Really blaming VS is beyond the pail.. And threads are never shut down just for one comment being reported, only for consistent and irrelevant personal remarks.
Why is it 'beyond the pale' to point out that VS's comments were ill-judged at best? I have explained why I read them as I did, and why they are offensive, and the defence is that VS sees herself as someone who would never say such a thing, is 'LGBTQ+', so that means that her comments can't possibly be nasty. I, for one, remain unconvinced. If VS really felt that her comments, complete with goady '😉', had been misunderstood and that she didn't mean to cause hurt, she could have retracted them, but no - instead there have been numerous posts from her saying over and over again that it is she who has been upset, and making the thread yet another one that is all about her.

It's pathetic to try and blame someone for reporting a post.
It is anyone's right to post their point of view, and I very much doubt that calling someone's view 'pathetic' is in the spirit of GN.

I can see that the ground is getting difficult- What do you call a penis on a transman, if not a penis?
When did you stop beating your wife? I wouldn't call a penis on a transman anything, as transmen don't have penises.

but pretending it's VS's fault if it is shut down is pretty low.
I haven't pretended anything, or seen anyone else pretend anything. VS is the only person who has admitted to reporting posts, though, so if the thread is shut down (which I very much doubt will happen) then who is to blame?

Especially as we have just discovered there are more women who are really men!
Well, that depends on what being 'really men' is taken to mean, doesn't it? That is an interesting article, and I can't pretend to fully understand the detail of the science, but it seems that there are chromosomal abnormalities that mean that some women have undeveloped male characteristics. That these are often undiagnosed until the women realise that they are unable to conceive suggests that they are not giving rise to 'feelings' of being 'in the wrong body', but obviously I don't know. I would suggest, however, that a woman who is trying to conceive a child is unlikely to see herself as male, and may well, like other people with DSDs, prefer to distance herself from the whole trans debate. Whatever the case, though, there should be counselling and medical assistance for those people to medically transition if that is what they want to do. It is not remotely the same as deciding you are female the day before you are about to be sentenced for rape.

Well I'm going to go away now anyway

Because it's turned into a pile on and Im just constantly defending myself

And yes, someone in a position of constantly defending themselves is never going to come across well when they aren't very good at it, it's not something they are used too and they have to over think every comment because if there is an opportunity to twist it will be taken

See you on the next thread

I will treat it like a clean slate but others not so much sadly

Can one person be LGBTQ+ all by themselves? Surely one person identifies as one (or maybe two) of those? Especially if there are an undefined number of +++++

So, going back to the original question, can a woman . . .
Definitions from Oxford Languages And Merriam-Webster
woman
/ˈwʊmən/
noun
an adult female human being
. . . have a penis?

Definitions from Oxford Languages And Merriam-Webster
penis
/ˈpiːnɪs/
noun
the male genital organ of higher vertebrates, carrying the duct for the transfer of sperm during copulation

NO

Baggs

Can one person be LGBTQ+ all by themselves? Surely one person identifies as one (or maybe two) of those? Especially if there are an undefined number of +++++

Who knows, Baggs. This thread has my head spinning.

But what I will say is that no, this is not a pile on. My last post was in self-defence. I reacted to a very unpleasant post, and you (*VS*) have not let the matter drop, posting over and over that you have been misrepresented. I posted again to explain that whatever you say you meant, I was reacting to what you actually said, and you continued to play the victim.

I put up with a lot from you, but this one has really touched a nerve, and the continued insinuations prompted my last post.

Mollygo

So, going back to the original question, can a woman . . .
Definitions from Oxford Languages And Merriam-Webster
woman
/ˈwʊmən/
noun
an adult female human being
. . . have a penis?

Definitions from Oxford Languages And Merriam-Webster
penis
/ˈpiːnɪs/
noun
the male genital organ of higher vertebrates, carrying the duct for the transfer of sperm during copulation

NO

QED

Can you all please stop making this thread about me

Hilarious! Not laughed out loud at t'internet for ages but that's ace!

Of it looks like a penis and quacks like a penis it's a penis

Golly, you don't know much a penis if you think it quacks. No wonder you're confused about who has one.

*but pretending it's VS's fault if it is shut down is pretty low.
I haven't pretended anything, or seen anyone else pretend anything. VS is the only person who has admitted to reporting posts, though, so if the thread is shut down (which I very much doubt will happen) then who is to blame?*
Dickens has, supported by Pomegranateseed

*I can see that the ground is getting difficult- What do you call a penis on a transman, if not a penis?
When did you stop beating your wife? I wouldn't call a penis on a transman anything, as transmen don't have penises*
They have something if they undergo surgery and they want to call it a penis..
Especially as we have just discovered there are more women who are really men!
Did you read the article?
These women have XY chromosomes so are technically male . Which pretty much confounds all the statements that women are female in every cell.
Some of them find when young, but some don't.

They have something if they undergo surgery and they want to call it a penis.
Sorry, but biology just doesn't work like that. Body parts are what they are - not what you choose to call them.

Yes, I read the article. As I said, it is interesting, and I don't claim to understand all the finer points, but it is about DSDs, and people with DSDs have very explicitly asked not to be dragged into 'trans issues', as their condition is about sex, not gender.

Doodledog
I’ve read that article before. It’s often dragged into this sort of thread, but as you said
it is about DSDs, and people with DSDs have very explicitly asked not to be dragged into 'trans issues', as their condition is about sex, not gender.
So is it being kind to ignore their wishes and use their condition in discussions about gender.

Trans people were marching with their LGB brothers and sisters and facing discrimination a long time before the trans debate which somewhat begs the question as to why the T was only added to Stonewall's descriptor in 2015 a whacking 26 years after its formation! It's obviously just coincidence that the LGB struggle for equal rights had largely been won so Stonewall was on the verge of redundancy, and nothing to do with why they've added more and more letters and a + or two.

These women have XY chromosomes so are technically male . Which pretty much confounds all the statements that women are female in every cell. you do realise that these are exceptions to the norm? These are not females they are males for whom the body development has deviated from the normal path, causing rare variations. Humans are binocular and bipedal by design. Some humans are born without two functioning eyes and some with only one leg or none. It doesn't mean that humans are no longer a binocular or bipedal species, just that something sometimes goes wrong.

I haven't read all this thread so don't know who said this -
These women have XY chromosomes so are technically male . Which pretty much confounds all the statements that women are female in every cell.

If these were the only male people wanting to be accepted as women, there would be very, very few transwomen and little or no problem.
There would also be no 'social transition' of children leading to years of coaching making them believe they need to change their bodies.

Unfortunately, there are many many completely standard male people involved and, as already said, people with differences of sex development mostly want nothing to do with trans ideology.

Well, on a positive note, there does seem to be investigations going on into the Mermaids charity, and how they seem to see themselves as more knowledgable than qualified doctors.

'The boss of a trans charity referred children to the NHS Tavistock gender clinic – even when their GP had repeatedly refused to do so, documents have revealed.

Mermaids's ex-chief Susie Green, who has no known formal medical training, was said to have a direct line to clinic director Dr Polly Carmichael.

She reportedly demanded to be regarded as a 'professional' so she could send referrals for young people who were unsupported by their GP. In one case she was said to have sent one noting that the GP 'has consistently refused to refer'"

Seems to have had an inflated idea of her own expertise...🙄

According to the Telegraph, the NHS have told the reformed Tavistock Clinic, not to be closely involved with Mermaids any more.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12134475/Boss-trans-charity-Mermaids-referred-children-NHS-Tavistock-gender-clinic.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/20/nhs-trust-drops-mermaids-training-scheme-telegraph-expose/

Galaxy

It's relevant to a discussion about gender and what gender means.

Yes I can see that, good point. I was referring it more re "the can a man have a penis" aspect.

VioletSky

No the conversation was on whether or not a woman can have a penis.

Trans women can have a penis was not an acceptable answer

Even though it's true

Oh , I know I said "Trans women may have a penis" earlier in the thread. Why is that not acceptable? I dont understand

Trans women will always have a penis, unless they have had it surgically removed.

Probably because Trans women are biological men....😉

VioletSky

Of it looks like a penis and quacks like a penis it's a penis

Um well I've never heard of a penis that quacks. Or are we wandering into "can a duck have a penis?" territory? 🦆

Madgran77
Just to keep us up to date re penises and the quackery🦆

But ducks, geese, and other waterfowl are among the few species that do have a penis. It's a long, corkscrew appendix that remains inside-out, tucked within the duck's body until it's needed. When the time is right, *the male duck (drake)*can whip it out with amazing speed.
So if a drake decided to be a transduck, or in ornithology, a transhen he would still have a penis.

Mollygo great concept- a transhen!

There’s an awful lot of interest in penises here. Obviously a very important issue for some.

Mollygo I genuinely never knew a duck had a penis! Learn something new every day eh! 🤣