Cancel Culture or Free Speech

I know who she is Glorianny and I also know a racist comment when I see one and the deliberate twisting and/or misrepresentation of posts.

Not all intersectional feminists are black. Not all intersectional feminists are misogynistic and I repeat, Molly made no mention of race or colour, that was introduced by you.

As I posted earlier, feminism was originally organised by well educated, white middle class women but today, it's not only well educated, white middle class women who are feminists.

I take it (GC) to mean being critical of the idea of gender. Someone who disagrees with gender being something innate that one can 'feel', as opposed to a socially-determined set of norms is, I suppose, gender-critical.

That is my view of gender (that it is not a fixed state, not a 'feeling' but more about convention), but that doesn't mean that I necessarily agree with everyone who also holds this view, or that they will necessarily agree with me.

IMO, saying that someone likes the norms traditionally associated with the opposite sex must be someone of the opposite sex who is 'in the wrong body' is the ultimate in regressive support for gender stereotypes, and I believe that that way of thinking is always going to be detrimental to women. If that makes me gender-critical, so be it, but as with the things we've been discussing earlier, when it is used as an insult and as a way of grouping others who don't believe that TWAW together, I don't like it at all.

There is far too much telling us what we think, and why we think it (social class, privilege, ignorance, prejudice, phobia, whatever it might be) but we are individuals with different views.

Glorianny

Smileless2012

And Mollygo is entitled to her views without the implication that she is racist Glorianny.

There is nothing in her post yesterday @ 23.14 that pertains to race. You have introduced that yourself and if anyone considers your IF views as misogynistic, they are entitled to say so based on what they post.

You've posted a picture of a black IF after Molly posted referring to some IF's views "These are better known as misogynistic feminists" in order to misrepresent her view as racist.

The term Intersectional feminist was proposed by the black woman I posted a picture of Smileless2021 Her name is Kimberlé Crenshaw, and she proposed the term in 1989.
The link I gave also gave details of other black and indigenous women intersectional feminists.
When I said that Mollygo might not understand the roots of IF and therefore not be racist I was accused of being patronising.
But if you do understand it and still label those women misogynistic you are being racist.

Women who can be deemed as "misogynistic" surely cannot all be black or from an ethnic background?

I wouldn't question the lived experience of a black / indigenous woman, because as a white woman, I couldn't possible know what it is like to suffer that kind of discrimination, though I'm very much aware it's real.

But if I want to question her belief that TWAW - why would I not approach her as an equal, as an equal she will perfectly well understand the concept of believing it, or not, because ethnicity is not a feature of the argument.

because ethnicity is not a feature of the argument exactly Dickens and accusations of racism and transphobia are used as attempts to silence so it's good to see that it wont be allowed here on GN.

Dickens

Glorianny

Smileless2012

And Mollygo is entitled to her views without the implication that she is racist Glorianny.

There is nothing in her post yesterday @ 23.14 that pertains to race. You have introduced that yourself and if anyone considers your IF views as misogynistic, they are entitled to say so based on what they post.

You've posted a picture of a black IF after Molly posted referring to some IF's views "These are better known as misogynistic feminists" in order to misrepresent her view as racist.

The term Intersectional feminist was proposed by the black woman I posted a picture of Smileless2021 Her name is Kimberlé Crenshaw, and she proposed the term in 1989.
The link I gave also gave details of other black and indigenous women intersectional feminists.
When I said that Mollygo might not understand the roots of IF and therefore not be racist I was accused of being patronising.
But if you do understand it and still label those women misogynistic you are being racist.

Women who can be deemed as "misogynistic" surely cannot all be black or from an ethnic background?

I wouldn't question the lived experience of a black / indigenous woman, because as a white woman, I couldn't possible know what it is like to suffer that kind of discrimination, though I'm very much aware it's real.

But if I want to question her belief that TWAW - why would I not approach her as an equal, as an equal she will perfectly well understand the concept of believing it, or not, because ethnicity is not a feature of the argument.

So what was Mollygo saying that white intersectional feminists are misogynistic, but black IFs are not?

By all means question, by all means ask for explanations.

But if you come out with discriminatory statements like "IF's are misogynistic" don't expect me to accept that, because that isn't questioning or asking, that is judging and discriminating and ignoring other women, and particularly black women's (because it was their movement) right to a viewpoint.

I haven't said a single rude thing to anyone on this thread

So how come things I'm being brought into it?

I'm not a misogynist or an activist

Those are lies

I'm am intersectional feminist

I just find it humorous/ironic/strange, that someone has the power to deduce a racist by their indirect comments, but not the ability to see a penis and think ahh that's a man.

Namsnanny

I just find it humorous/ironic/strange, that someone has the power to deduce a racist by their indirect comments, but not the ability to see a penis and think ahh that's a man.

Well actually I haven't seen that many penises in my life. Possibly (if I discount the programme Naked Attraction) just around double figures, Does that mean I haven't met many men???

If you watch gogglebox you will see an endless array of penises, they seem to think it's a selling point.

Galaxy

If you watch gogglebox you will see an endless array of penises, they seem to think it's a selling point.

I sort of watch it. But I really don't like some of the people on it now so I do something else at the same time. I've seen a few, but obviously I must have missed a lot!!!

Oh come on Glorianny it's you who insists on bringing racism into this discussion when it has nothing to do with the issue being discussed.

Yes it is humorous, ironic and strange Namsnanny also rather annoying.

Smileless I'm not as lucid as I'd like to be, and definitely not as erudite, so I'm glad you got my post 👍😁

Why is it ok to call glorianny and others mysoginists then?

A mysoginist is someone who expresses hatred and contempt towards women and is prejudiced against them

Glorianny is a feminist

Glorianny

Namsnanny

I just find it humorous/ironic/strange, that someone has the power to deduce a racist by their indirect comments, but not the ability to see a penis and think ahh that's a man.

Well actually I haven't seen that many penises in my life. Possibly (if I discount the programme Naked Attraction) just around double figures, Does that mean I haven't met many men???

You only need to see one to know whats what.

I don't think I've ever not got any of your posts Namsnanny .

Smileless2012

Oh come on Glorianny it's you who insists on bringing racism into this discussion when it has nothing to do with the issue being discussed.

Yes it is humorous, ironic and strange Namsnanny also rather annoying.

I bookmarked this a few days ago...

It was never Kimberlé Crenshaw’s intention to exclude women who defend their sex from the all-encompassing prism her theoretical analysis provides. On the contrary, she admits that there have been “distortions” to its purpose and reminds those who utilise her analytical tool that it was never meant to be “identity politics on steroids.”

... and (I can't italicise it)

"Far from repeating platitudes about diversity and inclusion, we ought to critically examine the oppressive behaviour being excused through the hijacking of an analytical tool which was meant to be liberational. What happens to the women who agree that our experiences involve overlapping, concurrent forms of oppression (and privilege) which we must untangle in other to better understand the depths of inequalities, but who also fight to defend our sex? What
happens to the women who also agree that we need a liberatory approach which illuminates the connections between all fights for justice, but who equally want to centre females?"

FiLiA - "Intersectionality Hijacked" 2021 (Blog) Raquel Rosario Sánchez

Thank you for that Dickens. It's a shame that the analytical tool IF provides has been hijacked by some to the point where some women are having to defend themselves for defending our sex.

Namsnanny

I just find it humorous/ironic/strange, that someone has the power to deduce a racist by their indirect comments, but not the ability to see a penis and think ahh that's a man.
Thanks to the demand for identification by gender, a nurse could well be faced with that issue.🤣🤣

Glorianny deduced that all white feminists are racist by her comments except IF. The one is no more true than the other.

I’m saying straight out that any sort of feminist who does not put the rights of females before the rights of males is doing the same misogynistic practices that some males and all ill intentioned TW and TRA feel they have the right to do.

Thank you Dickens for your post at 16:18.

I'm saying straight out that any sort of feminist who does not put the rights of females before the rights of males is doing the same misogynist practices that some males and all ill intentioned TW and TRA feel they have the right to do.

I totally agree Molly.

That’s how I feel Mollygo and Smileless2012

Me too, unsurprisingly.

Namsnanny

I just find it humorous/ironic/strange, that someone has the power to deduce a racist by their indirect comments, but not the ability to see a penis and think ahh that's a man.

Well, I would never see myself as racist, any more than I would recognise myself as "middle class and priviledged".

I have seen a few penis's though, and have recognised the fact that there's always been a biological men at the end of them...🙄

I dunno - when did life get so complicated? 🤐. This subject has nothing to do with who is what colour.

Irrelevant,😗

Mollygo

^Feminist- an advocate of women’s (AHF) rights on the basis of equality of the sexes.^

There are many who consider themselves feminists but feel they need a qualifying adjective such as intersectional or even intersexual before the word feminist.

This usually means they don’t advocate women’s rights on the basis of equality of the sexes, but often advocate anything which goes against female rights if it benefits males.

These are better known as misogynistic feminists.

So does everyone agree with this too then?

Dickens

Smileless2012

Oh come on Glorianny it's you who insists on bringing racism into this discussion when it has nothing to do with the issue being discussed.

Yes it is humorous, ironic and strange Namsnanny also rather annoying.

I bookmarked this a few days ago...

It was never Kimberlé Crenshaw’s intention to exclude women who defend their sex from the all-encompassing prism her theoretical analysis provides. On the contrary, she admits that there have been “distortions” to its purpose and reminds those who utilise her analytical tool that it was never meant to be “identity politics on steroids.”

... and (I can't italicise it)

"Far from repeating platitudes about diversity and inclusion, we ought to critically examine the oppressive behaviour being excused through the hijacking of an analytical tool which was meant to be liberational. What happens to the women who agree that our experiences involve overlapping, concurrent forms of oppression (and privilege) which we must untangle in other to better understand the depths of inequalities, but who also fight to defend our sex? What
happens to the women who also agree that we need a liberatory approach which illuminates the connections between all fights for justice, but who equally want to centre females?"

FiLiA - "Intersectionality Hijacked" 2021 (Blog) Raquel Rosario Sánchez

But I haven't excluded anyone.
I have been told that Intersectional feminists are misogynistic.
I have said that if you believe that knowing the links between black women and intersectional feminism you are being racist.

I have not questioned the feminism of anyone. I have not insisted anyone becomes an Intersectional feminist. I have simply repudiated an allegation of misogyny. And nothing you have posted addresses that allegation.

And I have posted that IMO, any feminist (whatever label they choose to add) or male (whatever label they choose to adopt), or TRA, who chooses repudiate female rights or to put male rights before female rights is showing misogyny, defined as
^dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.