Has the penny dropped (as fast as the Pound)- Brexit is a disaster

Saetana

Dickens

Louella12

Fleur, I don't know a soul who is bothered about Brexit. It's done. What is this vast majority you talk of? Ridiculous. Brexit is not on most people's minds. We're getting on with life. Why don't you take up a note productive hobby? We're not going back into the EU. Suck it up .

We're not going back into the EU. Suck it up .

How rude!

In fact, the decision whether or not "we" ever go back in might be taken decades down the line by following generations - when many of us will no longer be around to have a say.

And, as with most political decisions, it will largely be based on the economic climate at that time - if the then government of the day consider it to be in our interests (or theirs) then there is a distinct possibility the country will rejoin.

You honestly think the EU will still exists in "decades"? I do not, the European Project is failing, they are constantly arguing amongst themselves. The main problem with the EU is they have tried to bring together too many disparate countries - countries such as Italy, Greece Spain et al have little in common with Eastern European countries such as Poland, Hungary et al - and then of course we have France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands etc. There are three distinct groups of countries in the EU and it is not a comfortable relationship - especially for those who are actually in the Eurozone. It worked well when it was truly a "common market" - since more and more political integration has been involved, it is failing.

Yes, I do think the EU will still exist.

I think it will change / morph as such institutions do over time, partly because of the reasons you mention. The EU today is not the EU we voted for in 1975.

Without going into long and tedious explanations / theories, in a nutshell I think it will still be in existence because Trade is one of the primary functions of a nation, and those nations living next door to each other, despite all the political and cultural fall-outs, will not want to obliterate all the benefits of trading with each other when it is made so easy to do so.

An over-simplified explanation, but I've got a kitchen full of dirty dishes and a messy house to clear up before bedtime!

I think pragmatism will nearly always rule over nationalism.

Wise words, Dickens.

It worked well when it was truly a "common market"

But it never was just a 'common market'. It was expressly intended as a device to avoid future war between European countries by making the member states interdependent and restricting exclusive access to the wherewithal to make armaments.

It also had a political dimension from the start as part of its objectives was to prevent the re-emergence of totalitarian regimes.

Those who have fallen for the 'it was just a common market' nonsense have been sadly misled.

Dickens

Saetana

Dickens

Louella12

Fleur, I don't know a soul who is bothered about Brexit. It's done. What is this vast majority you talk of? Ridiculous. Brexit is not on most people's minds. We're getting on with life. Why don't you take up a note productive hobby? We're not going back into the EU. Suck it up .

We're not going back into the EU. Suck it up .

How rude!

In fact, the decision whether or not "we" ever go back in might be taken decades down the line by following generations - when many of us will no longer be around to have a say.

And, as with most political decisions, it will largely be based on the economic climate at that time - if the then government of the day consider it to be in our interests (or theirs) then there is a distinct possibility the country will rejoin.

You honestly think the EU will still exists in "decades"? I do not, the European Project is failing, they are constantly arguing amongst themselves. The main problem with the EU is they have tried to bring together too many disparate countries - countries such as Italy, Greece Spain et al have little in common with Eastern European countries such as Poland, Hungary et al - and then of course we have France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands etc. There are three distinct groups of countries in the EU and it is not a comfortable relationship - especially for those who are actually in the Eurozone. It worked well when it was truly a "common market" - since more and more political integration has been involved, it is failing.

Yes, I do think the EU will still exist.

I think it will change / morph as such institutions do over time, partly because of the reasons you mention. The EU today is not the EU we voted for in 1975.

Without going into long and tedious explanations / theories, in a nutshell I think it will still be in existence because Trade is one of the primary functions of a nation, and those nations living next door to each other, despite all the political and cultural fall-outs, will not want to obliterate all the benefits of trading with each other when it is made so easy to do so.

An over-simplified explanation, but I've got a kitchen full of dirty dishes and a messy house to clear up before bedtime!

I think pragmatism will nearly always rule over nationalism.

This reminds me so much of the Empire strikes back, and federation of three trying to enforce their rules, it is not just about trade though is it. Its about more of a federation , and the rules will be made by the three. All becoming the same under the star flag. As you can see I don't have much trust in their "trade" only.

This reminds me so much of the Empire strikes back, and federation of three trying to enforce their rules,

It's worrying that leave voters cannot distinguish fact from fantasy. Star Wars wasn't a metaphor for the EU.

Freya5

This reminds me so much of the Empire strikes back, and federation of three trying to enforce their rules, it is not just about trade though is it. Its about more of a federation , and the rules will be made by the three. All becoming the same under the star flag. As you can see I don't have much trust in their "trade" only.

Well now we're not part of the "federation" are we... what can you do now that you couldn't do when we were part of it?

Many on here are saying that their lives have gone on as before and they've not noticed anything that has had any impact so they're just getting on with it and wish that we Remainers would do the same.

The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999

Official EU voting records show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.

In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%. (source: Full-Fact)

Which of those EU rules blighted your life so?

The 6 original members were formed to avoid competition between different states which had caused conflict for centuries and 2 world wars. It was so popular that all the neighbouring states wanted to be involved, some as full members some as associates. There has been no conflict between members since it was set up, it was natural to have a common set of laws and values while keeping their own national government and identity.
Only the UK thought life would be better outside but that was based on the idea that we could pick and choose which parts suited us.

The EU has been enormously strengthened by Brexit in fact.

The UK now has the situation that if it wants to export to the EU, they will have to abide by EU rules on quality, standards, sizing, working conditions, husbandry conditions and safety. On the other hand, it now is accepting anything from anywhere, without checks at all. On safety, on husbandry and use of antibiotics and dangerous chemicals, etc, etc, etc. We have no idea what is coming in at the moment- as checks have not been implemented due to shortages and cost of living crisis. If the EU decides that for chocolate to be called chocolate, it has to have a garanteed percentage of cocoa mass, for instance, then the UK has to produce chocolate that adheres to those standards, and not Hersheys sugar and palm oil mix! Or not export at all. Same for all goods. The UK cannot force the EU to accept to import dangerous or sub-quality products, and fair enough. The UK currently accepts just anything ... without any checks. Taking back control!

Unless you buy from a trusted farmer locally- then you have no idea what you are eating currently.

The EU accepts beef from cows reared and transported in terribly cruel conditions from the destroyed rainforests of South America, so don’t pretend that only the UK ‘accepts just anything’.

Anyway, what’s with this ‘we have no idea what’s coming in’? I thought you live in Switzerland?

Fleurpepper

Is there anyone here on GN still prepared to stand and say that it is not- and give evidence to the effect?

The EU accepts beef from cows reared and transported in terribly cruel conditions from the destroyed rainforests of South America, so don’t pretend that only the UK ‘accepts just anything’.

My brother, a meat lover, lives with us currently. He reports no problems finding decent beef from a trusted local butcher - from looking to copious quantity of meat in our kitchen, he's correct.

I'm not quite sure why OP was quoted, Fleurpepper. Sorry.

GSM, yes, we in the UK.

What has Switzerland got to do with Brexit and the UK and the EU? The Law in Switzerland requires that all meat is sold stating provenance, so the customer has the choice, this in restaurants too, not just butchers' and supermarkets. And Switzerland is not in the EU, so why mention it? How weird, it seems to be a bit of an obsession with some of you, somehow.

The EU has been enormously strengthened by Brexit in fact.

How?

We too have an excellent local butcher. In any event, if you buy meat in a supermarket it will be labelled as to whether it is British or not.

Not by Law, and we all know that labelling of provenance has regularly been by-passed in the most of inventive/deceptive of ways.

Maggiemaybe- quite simple. Watching the demise of the UK and how isolated Brexit has made it, in 100s of ways, from supply chains, to provision of essential materials and chemicals, fresh produce, medicines, etc- the closure of so many large businesses and industries, the shortages of staff in so many fields, the loss of cooperation for education and research, and innovation projects, the financial sector, and on, and on.

They have realised that United they succeed and can provide each other with all essential goods and services, as the countries are so varied and produce stuff that others can't, and vice-versa. But also it has strengthened the concept of EU cooperation and strength. Even for the vaccine- working together took a little longer, but they were then able to procure huge numbers of vaccines at a much much lower price than UK going it alone, for instance.

Here you are * www.gov.uk/guidance/food-labelling-country-of-origin#:~:text=Print%20this%20page-,You%20must%20label%20your%20meat%2C%20fish%20or%20seafood%20product%20with,canteens

Ah yes, thanks, I have just checked and was going to post to the effect.

This however does not apply to prepared foodstuffs or restaurants, does it?

Fleurpepper Not by Law, and we all know that labelling of provenance has regularly been by-passed in the most of inventive/deceptive of ways.

YES, there are laws, I'll ask my brother to find for me and post.

Yes, GSM has posted above, thanks.

I see GSM posted the rules/law.

Good job as brother is out buying excess to fill our kitchen!

I’ve just done it Norah.

If your restaurant of choice doesn’t indicate provenance - the places I eat at do - then you can always ask.

I do wish you would stop criticising the UK, particularly as you have opted to no longer live here.

Fleurpepper

Ah yes, thanks, I have just checked and was going to post to the effect.

This however does not apply to prepared foodstuffs or restaurants, does it?

If you eat prepared foods - read the labels or don't purchase.

Similarly, if you must eat away from home, ask meat provenance at the restaurant. Decent establishments surely know.

Easy Peasy.

Indeed.

In the past people ate less meat, it is factory farming and greed that has led to the cruelty of industrialised production. People who eat meat should reduce the quantity. We were told that leaving the EU would lead to higher welfare standards. The opposite has happened. Standards have been relaxed. Few inspections mean farmers and abbatoirs can break the law knowing there will be no sanctions. Not sure how we got onto that one, but it’s another Brexit promise undelivered

I honestly do not recognise the U.K. Fleurpepper consistently posts about.

I can only guess that FP frequents dodgy areas, shops and restaurants when they visit the U.K.