Unfolding news, attack in Nottingham

I don't ever think violence is acceptable

I don't even make nasty personal comments

maddyone

That’s why I said he shouldn’t be here Forsythia. If we had a proper immigration system that actually checked who was coming into the country we might avoid some of this.

I think part of the problem is that proper, functioning, asylum-processing systems / immigration screening systems / border controls, etc, are costly to run and maintain - and require an adequate number of highly-skilled staff. Our current government, and those before it, do not appear to want to spend the money necessary to fund these agencies. And this might be true of other countries in Europe, too.

I heard that in the UK, staff turnover is very high because of the pressures of the job. It's often or frequently the case where highly-complex case loads will be being handled by inexperienced staff who've not reached the level of expertise required to do the job. The pressures of the job are compounded by the fact that there simply are not enough people employed to do the work. And the cycle continues. Governments - ours and Europe-wide - will have to commit to the spending required, otherwise more and more undesirable individuals will slip through the net, here and in mainland Europe.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Disagreeing is not baiting

Having different views is not baiting

And as far as I am aware we have never spoken before but your comments are your responsibility it's not my fault if you make personal comments

Have a nice rest of your evening

Forsythia

Yes that it Violet Sky you report it, like you do to everyone who disagrees with you. You’re pathetic! People like you who defend the indefensible never can defend your argument.

I have reported this Forsythia. There is absolutely no need for personal insults whatever your feelings about a situation or a poster.

Primrose53
I think you misinterpreted my post above.
I was stating the facts relating to the problem of identifying an applicant, not giving my opinion on for or against asylum seekers arriving here in inflatables.

I shouldn't have said anything

But I know some lovely immigrant families and it really does annoy me to see such generalised comments

But I wouldn't stand by and watch anyone have personal comments against them and it doesn't matter whether or not we agree on a political or even personal level

This thread has been ticking along nicely all day with differences of opinions but no contentious posts. What's suddenly made it go awry?

I don't mind personal comments against me, thick skin

My family... Not so much

It's gone now

I'll draw a line under it if everyone else is happy too. I'll have forgotten by tomorrow anyway

Casdon

Forsythia

Yes that it Violet Sky you report it, like you do to everyone who disagrees with you. You’re pathetic! People like you who defend the indefensible never can defend your argument.

I have reported this Forsythia. There is absolutely no need for personal insults whatever your feelings about a situation or a poster.

That’s good Casdon. You get on and do it. Makes you feel virtuous.

Forsythia

Casdon

Forsythia

Yes that it Violet Sky you report it, like you do to everyone who disagrees with you. You’re pathetic! People like you who defend the indefensible never can defend your argument.

I have reported this Forsythia. There is absolutely no need for personal insults whatever your feelings about a situation or a poster.

That’s good Casdon. You get on and do it. Makes you feel virtuous.

No, it doesn’t make me feel virtuous at all. It makes me feel embarrassed when grown women resort to playground behaviour, and it reflects badly on us all. You were out of order and you should apologise.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

That’s great and I honestly don’t care. These poor innocent people were killed by an evil person and he was an immigrant, possibly illegal. And you defend him. It’s just incredible. And believe me Blubelle I wouldn’t sit on a bus, train or anything else next to you either. Funny you’re allowed to say that to me without being banned isn’t it.

Well if you had half a brain you would see no one is defending him or his actions it’s your ridiculous words of saying they are scum send them all back that has caused the problem
You are obviously enjoying stirring up racial hatred
Anyway I m done with you not worth arguing with

I don’t think I said send them all back BlueBelle. Please point out where I did won’t you. Others also said scum on here, not just me.
As for the likelihood of this individual saving people in hospital as you claim, he’s just ended three lives and possibly more.
You’re also not worth arguing with. As you said to me.

Forsythia

Calling another poster "pathetic" is most likely contrary to the GN Guidelines.

You can be critical of their views - and I am often critical of VS's opinion, but personal insults like that are not on.

Also, I really do not believe that she - or anyone else on here - is actually defending the individual who committed these unbelievably appalling crimes, nor seeking to justify what he did.

It's really awful

Some very young people who have had their lives cut short

I have a son at uni, I'd do anything to hug him right now.

I can't imagine what those families must be going through

Dickens

maddyone

That’s why I said he shouldn’t be here Forsythia. If we had a proper immigration system that actually checked who was coming into the country we might avoid some of this.

I think part of the problem is that proper, functioning, asylum-processing systems / immigration screening systems / border controls, etc, are costly to run and maintain - and require an adequate number of highly-skilled staff. Our current government, and those before it, do not appear to want to spend the money necessary to fund these agencies. And this might be true of other countries in Europe, too.

I heard that in the UK, staff turnover is very high because of the pressures of the job. It's often or frequently the case where highly-complex case loads will be being handled by inexperienced staff who've not reached the level of expertise required to do the job. The pressures of the job are compounded by the fact that there simply are not enough people employed to do the work. And the cycle continues. Governments - ours and Europe-wide - will have to commit to the spending required, otherwise more and more undesirable individuals will slip through the net, here and in mainland Europe.

I think part of the problem is that proper, functioning, asylum-processing systems / immigration screening systems / border controls, etc, are costly to run and maintain - and require an adequate number of highly-skilled staff. Our current government, and those before it, do not appear to want to spend the money necessary to fund these agencies. And this might be true of other countries in Europe, too.

But it costs more in the long term to house people who are waiting to be assessed in hotels than it would to set up an efficient system which could administer the processes quickly, so that people could work and those who failed could be sent back.
What is happening now is just chaotic.

Why is anyone with a violent history free to roam around

This too - how come we keep hearing of violent MH patients randomly killing people; one recently apparently kept escaping from a 'secure unit' and murdered a woman.
How?

Incidentally, I don't think I could enter a country in the world without ID.

Myself and my husband were at university in Nottingham. That these events have happened in a city I knew and loved makes it especially sad. I feel for the parents of those two lovely young people who have had their lives cut short, and for the family of the older man too. His wife, his children, his grandchildren (assuming he had these relationships in his life.)

I despair of our immigration system. I don’t know, none of us know, whether this man was here legally or illegally, but what we have been told is that he’s an immigrant from West Africa. And I believe he shouldn’t have been here because a proper immigration system would have prevented him from being here. I agree with your analysis Dickens and I wonder how long we must wait before we actually have a functioning immigration system. Of course we need immigration. We need people to fill the roles that are unfilled and to the people who come to this country to work hard and prosper, we owe everything. We owe nothing to the person who has callously taken three lives and left three others injured, one critically.

Callistemon21

Incidentally, I don't think I could enter a country in the world without ID.

Nor me, and I never have been able to. Even with free movement, my passport had to be shown before I boarded a plane or ferry, out of the country and back into it. And some countries require visas, which we can apply for and get online these days. Would New Zealand have let me in last November without proper documentation? No, they would have put me on the next plane back.

I think it's needs to be treated like a global issue. Much stronger laws on what constitutes a weapon and how illegal it is to carry it

We have done well with this as a country. We have relatively low murder rates. Other countries where weapons are more readily available, like the US, they have an average of 2 mass murders a day (4 or more people killed or injured)

Weapons are the issue and access to them at the point that any person from any potential demographic loses their ability for reason

HowVeryDareYou2

Magdala Road, where the poor man was found dead, and his van stolen to knock over the other people, has a Best Western hotel on the corner - all illegal immigrants housed there. Just saying.......

How do you know these asylum seekers are illegal immigrants HowVeryDareYou2?

That is unnecessary and contributes nothing but unpleasantness to the discussion here in my opinion.

THIS is the latest info:

The 31-year-old West African national has been living legally in the UK since he was a teenager he has struggled with mental health problems and this is what the police say they are looking at now.

Callistemon21

But it costs more in the long term to house people who are waiting to be assessed in hotels than it would to set up an efficient system which could administer the processes quickly, so that people could work and those who failed could be sent back.

... Precisely!

There was an AS back in 2022 - a secondary school Biology teacher from Kenya (with an undergraduate degree) - who gave an interview with ITV.

She suffered death-threats and extortion in her native Kenya, and had been here for 5 YEARS waiting to be processed, meanwhile she isn't allowed to work.

"I could contribute by working, by paying taxes, by not taking from the government the money it is spending on [asylum seekers]", she told ITV News.

"We are willing and able to work, we are willing and able to contribute to do our bit. And I do believe that British society is all about doing your bit."

It's madness isn't it - I wonder if she's still waiting? Unable to work - which she said was beyond frustrating.