Unfolding news, attack in Nottingham

Just to add I read Howverydareyou’s post wrong and thought she meant the older victim owned a hotel housing migrants. My mistake. Regardless, another family left grieving.

tickingbird

MH care and support has been sadly lacking for a long time. It should be high priority for any future government.

I doubt very much it will be. Even with a Labour government.

The priority with both Tory and Labour is to get spending under control. Starmer's already sort of hinted that we shouldn't expect any 'largesse'.

Until a politician or two is affected personally by the results of cuts to MH services, or any of the other public services, they will tinker around the edges, and talk about it. But these issues largely don't affect them... they don't hang around at bus stops, walk home from a night out, and they certainly don't live in rough areas or those that have high rates of criminal activity.

Nothing will change, that's guaranteed.

Absolutely tragic for all the victims but especially so for the two young people, never to have the opportunities in life we hope our children and grandchildren will have. Such a loss and great sadness for all their families. My thoughts are also with the three in hospital, one apparently in a critical condition.

Fleurpepper

Could you kindly give us a description of an 'illegal immigrant'?, please.

Not sure why you asked this question but perhaps this will help: There is no legal nor broadly accepted definition of an ‘irregular migrant’, though the term is commonly used to refer to people who are in the UK without the legal right to be so.

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/irregular-migration-in-the-uk/

What this link tells us is that the government haven’t got the slightest idea who is in the country.
They don’t seem to have much trouble finding me when they want me to pay my taxes.
Strange!

All I see are those beautiful young faces with no future for them or their parents and the school caretaker who is described as a loved colleague.
I don’t know if he had a family but I grieve for all those left behind who must be in total disbelief and profound shock.

Dickens

tickingbird

MH care and support has been sadly lacking for a long time. It should be high priority for any future government.

I doubt very much it will be. Even with a Labour government.

The priority with both Tory and Labour is to get spending under control. Starmer's already sort of hinted that we shouldn't expect any 'largesse'.

Until a politician or two is affected personally by the results of cuts to MH services, or any of the other public services, they will tinker around the edges, and talk about it. But these issues largely don't affect them... they don't hang around at bus stops, walk home from a night out, and they certainly don't live in rough areas or those that have high rates of criminal activity.

Nothing will change, that's guaranteed.

If we had the greatest government ever and endless funding it would still take a very long time to turn mental health services around. Recruitment is a huge problem, it’s a difficult job which is not for many people. I’ve got every admiration for people who work on the coal face of adult mental health.

I totally agree, a very difficult, complex job with a high stress level and therefore a high drop out rate.

toscalily

Fleurpepper

Could you kindly give us a description of an 'illegal immigrant'?, please.

Not sure why you asked this question but perhaps this will help: There is no legal nor broadly accepted definition of an ‘irregular migrant’, though the term is commonly used to refer to people who are in the UK without the legal right to be so.

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/irregular-migration-in-the-uk/

I asked folowing this comment

'I merely mentioned that the people in THAT PARTICULAR hotel are illegal immigrants because I know someone who works there, and that person told me. '

eazybee

The man killed whose van was stolen has been identified as a school caretaker named Ian Coates.

The man arrested and being interviewed by police is 31, a legal migrant from North Africa , a small-time drugs dealer with apparent mental health problems, known to police who visited him regularly.

So the man arrested has been here since the age of 21 and is here legally.

Which begs the question - has he developed these problems and fallen into criminal ways since he has been here, if so, how and why and what can be done to prevent this happening to others?

Or did the vetting process fail when he was given leave to stay?

Casdon

Dickens

tickingbird

MH care and support has been sadly lacking for a long time. It should be high priority for any future government.

I doubt very much it will be. Even with a Labour government.

The priority with both Tory and Labour is to get spending under control. Starmer's already sort of hinted that we shouldn't expect any 'largesse'.

Until a politician or two is affected personally by the results of cuts to MH services, or any of the other public services, they will tinker around the edges, and talk about it. But these issues largely don't affect them... they don't hang around at bus stops, walk home from a night out, and they certainly don't live in rough areas or those that have high rates of criminal activity.

Nothing will change, that's guaranteed.

If we had the greatest government ever and endless funding it would still take a very long time to turn mental health services around. Recruitment is a huge problem, it’s a difficult job which is not for many people. I’ve got every admiration for people who work on the coal face of adult mental health.

If we had the greatest government ever and endless funding it would still take a very long time to turn mental health services around. Recruitment is a huge problem, it’s a difficult job which is not for many people. I’ve got every admiration for people who work on the coal face of adult mental health.

You are right, of course.

But a government genuinely committed to actually doing something meaningful and constructive about our failing services would be a good start - and would, at least, give all those who work in them a feeling of hope, a sense that perhaps, slowly, things would start to change.

At the moment, they must feel pretty hope-less... each day a battle, the same as the day, week, month, years before. I have watched nurses struggle with lack of staff in far less stressful environments, and seen how it gets them down. Goodness only knows how those who are dealing with individuals who are suicidal - like sodapop's daughter does - cope on a daily basis.

I have only just caught up with this tragic story. So sad for those who have lost their lives under such terrible circumstances. Its shocking.
Once again, I cannot begin to imagine the grief of their families and friends.

There's pictures of him trying to break into a Homeless Hostel after killing the 2 students (Daily Mail) he's all dressed in black, I can't do a link. I think he's just plain evil, it looks preplanned to me dressed in black, rucksack with his weapons. Whether he came here legally or not if he hadn't been allowed in these people would still be alive.

Nicenanny3

There's pictures of him trying to break into a Homeless Hostel after killing the 2 students (Daily Mail) he's all dressed in black, I can't do a link. I think he's just plain evil, it looks preplanned to me dressed in black, rucksack with his weapons. Whether he came here legally or not if he hadn't been allowed in these people would still be alive.

Completely agree nicenanny3

I have just watched the fathers of the two students talking at the vigil.
No words.

Me too eazybee. It made me cry. And it makes me angry. I don’t feel sorry for the perpetrator, whatever his problems. I feel anger that he’s done this, and that he came here and did this to a hard working and well liked older man, just approaching his retirement, now snatched away from him, and to two of our brightest and best young people. I’m angry at this moment. I’m angry with him and I wish to God he’d never set foot in this country.

I've just watched the two fathers. I echo your post maddy.

Some years ago I worked in the homeless sector with young people.
One evening it became very apparent that one of our residents was becoming mentally unwell and their condition was deteriorating. A colleague phoned the local Mental health team and was advised to 'pop them in a cab and get yourselves to A&E', due to the situation, there was no way we could do this and over the next 24 hours and despite a number of calls to the mental health and leaving care teams, we received no support whatsoever.
The only way we could get help was to call the police... they arrested him BUT called for a medical assessment, he was admitted to a psychiatric ward.

This was in 2001.... nothing appears to have changed and the collateral damage is horrendous.

I found the whole vigil at Nottingham University incredibly moving. Although to say that the emotions of the two families must be raw is a huge understatement, I hope they could take some comfort from the number of students attending to share their grief and mourn the loss of these two young people.

Listening to the two fathers speaking was heartbreaking, and the tribute given by the representative of the Students Union, Daisy Forster was outstanding. Despite obviously being upset, she spoke most eloquently even remembering to mention the third victim. Well done young lady,

maddyone

What this link tells us is that the government haven’t got the slightest idea who is in the country.
They don’t seem to have much trouble finding me when they want me to pay my taxes.
Strange!

There are people who do know ( roughly)
One is supermarket companies and people who run sewage plants. Think about it 😱

maddyone

Me too eazybee. It made me cry. And it makes me angry. I don’t feel sorry for the perpetrator, whatever his problems. I feel anger that he’s done this, and that he came here and did this to a hard working and well liked older man, just approaching his retirement, now snatched away from him, and to two of our brightest and best young people. I’m angry at this moment. I’m angry with him and I wish to God he’d never set foot in this country.

I'm angry too.

Never mind MH services are stretched (we know they are), never mind all those wonderful asylum seekers who will save our NHS, pick our vegetables and fruit, never mind the fact that he had permission to stay - he has since had a history of violence, drug dealing and the police were often called to deal with incidents involving him.
With that history, the permission should have been revoked and he should have been sent back to his homeland.

You do wonder why the perpetrator had been allowed to remain in the country this long. He has

The authorities have some questions to answer.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Dickens

tickingbird

MH care and support has been sadly lacking for a long time. It should be high priority for any future government.

I doubt very much it will be. Even with a Labour government.

The priority with both Tory and Labour is to get spending under control. Starmer's already sort of hinted that we shouldn't expect any 'largesse'.

Until a politician or two is affected personally by the results of cuts to MH services, or any of the other public services, they will tinker around the edges, and talk about it. But these issues largely don't affect them... they don't hang around at bus stops, walk home from a night out, and they certainly don't live in rough areas or those that have high rates of criminal activity.

Nothing will change, that's guaranteed.

Hi Dickens.

I'm a MH service user and also in the Labour Party and am in one of the groups all over the country putting forward plans and whats needed and costings. As a whole we are involved with plan making at the highest level. We care, we are determined, and it is regarded as a priority, very much so.

and the MP's involved with us really care, and some have issues themselves or family members, disclosed sometimes publicly, sometimes in privacy.

so please believe - issues do affect them, and they do care, and we will do our best to even just bring MH spending on a parity with other NHS services (they are not and have never been).

That’s interesting Wyllow. Perhaps you’d like to tell us what their priorities are concerning immigration and cases like these.