Unfolding news, attack in Nottingham

NotSpaghetti

HowVeryDareYou2

Magdala Road, where the poor man was found dead, and his van stolen to knock over the other people, has a Best Western hotel on the corner - all illegal immigrants housed there. Just saying.......

How do you know these asylum seekers are illegal immigrants HowVeryDareYou2?

That is unnecessary and contributes nothing but unpleasantness to the discussion here in my opinion.

If they are officially housed there, the authorities are aware of their existence, therefore they are NOT illegal immigrants. An illegal immigrant would not have received accommodation. They would be hiding from authority, working for hourly cash-in-hand and sleeping on a relative's sofa or living in a squat, because they would be sent back if found.

Now that we have more details, questions need to be asked. If there had been police patrols, would he have been stopped? If he had a history of violence, why was not under some sort of supervision? The man in the hostel did not call police, was this because he thought they would do nothing?
Once again, young innocent lives have been lost because of this incompetent government.

Dee1012

Some years ago I worked in the homeless sector with young people.
One evening it became very apparent that one of our residents was becoming mentally unwell and their condition was deteriorating. A colleague phoned the local Mental health team and was advised to 'pop them in a cab and get yourselves to A&E', due to the situation, there was no way we could do this and over the next 24 hours and despite a number of calls to the mental health and leaving care teams, we received no support whatsoever.
The only way we could get help was to call the police... they arrested him BUT called for a medical assessment, he was admitted to a psychiatric ward.

This was in 2001.... nothing appears to have changed and the collateral damage is horrendous.

And the Met Police have recently stated that they will not attend call outs for people with MH problems, unless an actual crime is being committed.

Callistemon21

maddyone

Me too eazybee. It made me cry. And it makes me angry. I don’t feel sorry for the perpetrator, whatever his problems. I feel anger that he’s done this, and that he came here and did this to a hard working and well liked older man, just approaching his retirement, now snatched away from him, and to two of our brightest and best young people. I’m angry at this moment. I’m angry with him and I wish to God he’d never set foot in this country.

I'm angry too.

Never mind MH services are stretched (we know they are), never mind all those wonderful asylum seekers who will save our NHS, pick our vegetables and fruit, never mind the fact that he had permission to stay - he has since had a history of violence, drug dealing and the police were often called to deal with incidents involving him.
With that history, the permission should have been revoked and he should have been sent back to his homeland.

I agree with you. We don't know all the details at this stage, but something is wrong with the system somewhere, if a person (anyone) is allowed to roam the streets with a violent, criminal background.

Forsythia

Absolutely right Callistemon and others. However, you will be accused of inciting racial hatred by the dogooders on here, as I was last night. He should never have been allowed to stay. All his family should be shipped back to their homeland if they are over here too. All will be on benefits you can bet your life on that. Nobody ever makes the correlation that the NHS is stretched because these individuals are entitled to NHS care from the moment they step into this country. A fat lot of good it did him, if this was the case. A drug dealer, a criminal, a complete waste of space. But untouchable and free to ruin the lives of three families and potentially others. It is disgusting. Mental health is always the cop out reason in these cases. Lots of people have mental health issues for one reason or other but they’re not all out killing people at random. I wish the police hadn’t used a taser but a gun and killed him.

That's not what you were saying last night. You were using him as an excuse to stop anybody being granted asylum.

Absolutely right Callistemon and others. However, you will be accused of inciting racial hatred by the dogooders on here, as I was last night

I don't think so, because I'm not saying the same as you.

I'm saying that the processing needs to be made more efficient and speeded up so that asylum seeker, immigrants can work and that there should be some kind of follow-up so that as in this case, where so many warning bells were ringing, someone who commits criminal offences can be re-assessed and deported immediately after due justice is served.

growstuff

Forsythia

Absolutely right Callistemon and others. However, you will be accused of inciting racial hatred by the dogooders on here, as I was last night. He should never have been allowed to stay. All his family should be shipped back to their homeland if they are over here too. All will be on benefits you can bet your life on that. Nobody ever makes the correlation that the NHS is stretched because these individuals are entitled to NHS care from the moment they step into this country. A fat lot of good it did him, if this was the case. A drug dealer, a criminal, a complete waste of space. But untouchable and free to ruin the lives of three families and potentially others. It is disgusting. Mental health is always the cop out reason in these cases. Lots of people have mental health issues for one reason or other but they’re not all out killing people at random. I wish the police hadn’t used a taser but a gun and killed him.

That's not what you were saying last night. You were using him as an excuse to stop anybody being granted asylum.

And that's not what I said either.

Casdon

Dickens

tickingbird

MH care and support has been sadly lacking for a long time. It should be high priority for any future government.

I doubt very much it will be. Even with a Labour government.

The priority with both Tory and Labour is to get spending under control. Starmer's already sort of hinted that we shouldn't expect any 'largesse'.

Until a politician or two is affected personally by the results of cuts to MH services, or any of the other public services, they will tinker around the edges, and talk about it. But these issues largely don't affect them... they don't hang around at bus stops, walk home from a night out, and they certainly don't live in rough areas or those that have high rates of criminal activity.

Nothing will change, that's guaranteed.

If we had the greatest government ever and endless funding it would still take a very long time to turn mental health services around. Recruitment is a huge problem, it’s a difficult job which is not for many people. I’ve got every admiration for people who work on the coal face of adult mental health.

It all goes back to ‘care in the community’ imo. ie close down the mental hospitals and throw everyone out on to the streets with no medical back up or accommodation. A scheme which, I believe, originated in Sweden but they actually put the money into making it work….I seem to remember several attacks back then by paranoid schizophrenics and wonder what has been done to resolve the problem since then.

MayBee70

Casdon

Dickens

tickingbird

MH care and support has been sadly lacking for a long time. It should be high priority for any future government.

I doubt very much it will be. Even with a Labour government.

The priority with both Tory and Labour is to get spending under control. Starmer's already sort of hinted that we shouldn't expect any 'largesse'.

Until a politician or two is affected personally by the results of cuts to MH services, or any of the other public services, they will tinker around the edges, and talk about it. But these issues largely don't affect them... they don't hang around at bus stops, walk home from a night out, and they certainly don't live in rough areas or those that have high rates of criminal activity.

Nothing will change, that's guaranteed.

If we had the greatest government ever and endless funding it would still take a very long time to turn mental health services around. Recruitment is a huge problem, it’s a difficult job which is not for many people. I’ve got every admiration for people who work on the coal face of adult mental health.

It all goes back to ‘care in the community’ imo. ie close down the mental hospitals and throw everyone out on to the streets with no medical back up or accommodation. A scheme which, I believe, originated in Sweden but they actually put the money into making it work….I seem to remember several attacks back then by paranoid schizophrenics and wonder what has been done to resolve the problem since then.

You’re right Maybee, it goes back to the 1970s. It didn’t start off as you described it though, it was a very slow and carefully thought out process in the first few years, and for many people it was the right solution, they shouldn’t have been in a psychiatric hospital. Staffing issues go back that far too, I can’t think of any point in my long career in the NHS when there weren’t vacancies in mental health specialties.

There were some improvements in the early 2000s, particularly with the growth of crisis and early intervention schemes - but the number of acute beds in particular has reduced too far, and there aren’t the staff in the community to keep people safely at home either now.

I live in Nottingham and I can tell you there’s plenty like him kicking around.

Callistemon21

growstuff

Forsythia

Absolutely right Callistemon and others. However, you will be accused of inciting racial hatred by the dogooders on here, as I was last night. He should never have been allowed to stay. All his family should be shipped back to their homeland if they are over here too. All will be on benefits you can bet your life on that. Nobody ever makes the correlation that the NHS is stretched because these individuals are entitled to NHS care from the moment they step into this country. A fat lot of good it did him, if this was the case. A drug dealer, a criminal, a complete waste of space. But untouchable and free to ruin the lives of three families and potentially others. It is disgusting. Mental health is always the cop out reason in these cases. Lots of people have mental health issues for one reason or other but they’re not all out killing people at random. I wish the police hadn’t used a taser but a gun and killed him.

That's not what you were saying last night. You were using him as an excuse to stop anybody being granted asylum.

And that's not what I said either.

I didn't say you were Callistemon. The offending posts have been deleted.

MartinC1967

I live in Nottingham and I can tell you there’s plenty like him kicking around.

There are plenty in all cities from all backgrounds.

growstuff

Callistemon21

growstuff

Forsythia

Absolutely right Callistemon and others. However, you will be accused of inciting racial hatred by the dogooders on here, as I was last night. He should never have been allowed to stay. All his family should be shipped back to their homeland if they are over here too. All will be on benefits you can bet your life on that. Nobody ever makes the correlation that the NHS is stretched because these individuals are entitled to NHS care from the moment they step into this country. A fat lot of good it did him, if this was the case. A drug dealer, a criminal, a complete waste of space. But untouchable and free to ruin the lives of three families and potentially others. It is disgusting. Mental health is always the cop out reason in these cases. Lots of people have mental health issues for one reason or other but they’re not all out killing people at random. I wish the police hadn’t used a taser but a gun and killed him.

That's not what you were saying last night. You were using him as an excuse to stop anybody being granted asylum.

And that's not what I said either.

I didn't say you were Callistemon. The offending posts have been deleted.

No, I know.
Just wanted to clarify that I don't know why follow-ups are not acted upon.

But, in so many cases, not just like this one, where tragedies occur, warning bells are often there and not followed up. 😥

The use of skunk’s often a precursor to a psychotic attack, it’s been linked to paranoia and stabbings up and down the country.

It’s a very pungent (repulsively so hence the name), therefore it would be wise to advise your kids/grandkids the heads up about giving people with that odour a very wide berth.

It’s no surprise that the person involved is a drug dealer, he’s clearly been getting high on his own supply.

And nobody knows how many evil acts like these murders are averted because there are follow-ups, preventive measures are taken and support is given.

But all that was to no avail in the case of Usman Khan who seized the very first opportunity to murder two young people actively helping him at Fishmongers Hall.

Callistemon I know. There was a fatal shooting of an innocent bystander just before Christmas in an area I know well. There was an arrest within days and it appears the suspect has a similar background to this one (except he's white British born and bred). He and his gang were known to police. I don't know what can be done to ensure the streets are safe from these people.

Yes we gave our own British born criminals without importing more. The fact remains if he hadn't been allowed into our country these people would still be alive.

Nicenanny3

Yes we gave our own British born criminals without importing more. The fact remains if he hadn't been allowed into our country these people would still be alive.

By that token do you think that British born people should not be allowed to leave these shores, as it’s equally likely that they will commit similar crimes in other countries. Shall we pull up the drawbridge?

Nicenanny3

Yes we gave our own British born criminals without importing more. The fact remains if he hadn't been allowed into our country these people would still be alive.

But people in other countries might very well be dead. Don't they matter?

He has been in the UK for at least 10 years and has settled status. Apparently, he has no previous convictions, so he should be treated no differently from anybody else who has a right to be in the UK. Whether he should have been treated for MH issues or given custodial sentences, if he was known to police, I don't know. I don't view him any differently from the petty criminals who go on to commit serious crimes.

I'm disgusted that so many people have jumped on the anti-immigrant bandwagon as a result of these murders.

No matter how appalling the crime there are always people who will find excuses for the perpetrator.

eazybee

No matter how appalling the crime there are always people who will find excuses for the perpetrator.

Who's finding excuses? I'm certainly not.

I watched tonight’s news and just thought what if that had been my grandson or my granddaughter. I could weep for their families and the young people whose innocence has been so brutally shattered.

It was truly heartbreaking to watch.

My DD2 went to the same school as the young man murdered in Nottingham. He looked such a lovely lad as did the girl who was also killed. A very sad week indeed with so many terrible acts of violence perpetrated against children and young people.

Seeking answers, trying to understand, “why” is not to excuse.

I dreaded that this thread would end up with posts with yet more racist anti immigrant tropes. Sigh.

I suppose if the young nurse who is alleged to have killed many babies on trial atm was black then we’d have gone down the same route.