Transgender-paedophi le-66-spared-jail-ca se-delayed. don't know where to send .

BeverleyJB

Excellent posts Doodledog and Dickens.

It has happened before, including where the judge has actually said that he wouldn't sentence the male paedophile (who identifies as a woman) to a prison sentence because it would be “too difficult” for such a man to spend time either in a male or female prison.

The law really isn't an ass, it's just that so many men are wretched misogynists.

Why on earth it should be what the man 'finds difficult' that matters is beyond me. How difficult would it be for a female cellmate to be locket up with him?

Sorry, I thought I’d quoted Doodledog’s post of 15.46.
There is an awful lot wrong with the justice system in the U.K.

Doodledog

BeverleyJB
Excellent posts Doodledog and Dickens.

It has happened before, including where the judge has actually said that he wouldn't sentence the male paedophile (who identifies as a woman) to a prison sentence because it would be “too difficult” for such a man to spend time either in a male or female prison.

The law really isn't an ass, it's just that so many men are wretched misogynists.
Why on earth it should be what the man 'finds difficult' that matters is beyond me. How difficult would it be for a female cellmate to be locked up with him?

Agreed, but would the concerns of the female cell mate count?

What is also truly shocking in this case is that the decision has been taken NOT on the basis of the crime committed but on the basis of a lack of an agreed protocol for offenders with specific needs. In other words the law is not being applied in sentencing, just the lack of clarity about "what to do with the offender"!

This sets a precedent for the law not to be applied in sentencing for anything really!! And with over crowded prisons and ancient prison stock, its obvious where this type of decision making might go.

How on earth can someone committing this crime be given a suspended sentence just because the law doesn't know what to with them!

Glorianny

This seems to be something to do with reports from the probation service and a time lapse. Regardless of the transgender issue it seems extraordinary that a paedophile can have a reduced sentence because of a time delay, but a 15 year old girl can be sentenced to prison 4 years after the crime. Something is wrong with the justice system.

I agree

I don't care who they are, get them in prison for as long as possible. Solitary would work anywhere

He needs to be in a Male prison as do all men.

Definitely should be in a male prison until he has reassignment surgery in which case “she” should be in a female prison. Keep it simple.

And with over crowded prisons and ancient prison stock, its obvious where this type of decision making might go.
This worries me when people say that the answer is purpose-built wings for transpeople. Why should someone get to go to a modern, purpose-built 'house' rather than a Victorian cell simply because he 'identifies' as a woman, when an offender who has committed a less serious crime has to slop out in an overcrowded jail because he doesn't.

Glorianny

This seems to be something to do with reports from the probation service and a time lapse. Regardless of the transgender issue it seems extraordinary that a paedophile can have a reduced sentence because of a time delay, but a 15 year old girl can be sentenced to prison 4 years after the crime. Something is wrong with the justice system.

Not getting involved, just a statement of fact. He was sentenced through a Magistrates Court, whereas her case was at Crown Court. The two systems have different systems and sanctions.

We get so caught up in the right and wrongs of these situations that we forget about the victims, they should have the satisfaction of knowing the law and sentencing is carried out as set out!

And not to be further abused by people denying what has happened to them.

Doodledog, we don’t need to build new prisons. It’s possible to identify specific areas, as with section 43 prisoners.

I’m disgusted this paedophile isn’t in prison. Indecent images of children mean children have been sexually abused. Prison now

I agree, Iam, but when these discussions happen there is usually a call for special trans wings, just as there are for trans toilets and changing rooms. It seems reasonable, but the reality would be that the men who identified as women would get the new, bigger, better versions and women would be left with the rest.

It’s the same with loos in public buildings - women get baby changing, disabled access and so-called ‘gender neutral’ in with us, and the men keep their original ones, plus they have the right to use ours, as there is no longer a Ladies.

Agree Dickens and Doodledog with the " erasing " of women's rights by transgender activists.
It is also very disturbing to find sentencing affected by matters not related to the crime. How is this just?

Casdon

Glorianny

This seems to be something to do with reports from the probation service and a time lapse. Regardless of the transgender issue it seems extraordinary that a paedophile can have a reduced sentence because of a time delay, but a 15 year old girl can be sentenced to prison 4 years after the crime. Something is wrong with the justice system.

Not getting involved, just a statement of fact. He was sentenced through a Magistrates Court, whereas her case was at Crown Court. The two systems have different systems and sanctions.

It seems then that a Magistrates court can ignore sentencing rules when it chooses but a Crown court cannot. Which only shows the Law is an ass.

Doodledog

*And with over crowded prisons and ancient prison stock, its obvious where this type of decision making might go.*
This worries me when people say that the answer is purpose-built wings for transpeople. Why should someone get to go to a modern, purpose-built 'house' rather than a Victorian cell simply because he 'identifies' as a woman, when an offender who has committed a less serious crime has to slop out in an overcrowded jail because he doesn't.

I wasnt saying that Doodledog.

I was referring to the principle of sentencing being based on the law for specific crimes rather than other issues like "what to do with the offender" when found guilty."

My point is that this is a dangerous road to go down and once applied it could be used in the context of our overcrowded prisons and old stock as in "Well you are guilty but there is no room so we'll suspend your sentence instead!"

On this particular case it is SO wrong that this person has been found guilty of a serious crime and been given a suspended sentence because "we don't know where to put them!" Completely Gob- smacking and not sentencing based on law!

The Law doesn’t (usually*) differentiate between male and female - if something is illegal it shouldn’t matter whether the perpetrator is a man or a woman.

It is not the law at fault here, it is the tidal wave of idiocy that allows special pleading for those who see themselves as above it all, and who think they have the right to impose their beliefs on the rest of us.

Part of the punishment of a jail sentence is that the offender loses the freedom to eat or sleep or do what they like when they like. They have to fit in, and do as they are told.

Prisoners are no longer ‘Captain Mainwairing of the Home Guard’ or Mrs Bouquet the lady of the house’, with whatever privileges those identities confer. They operate under the same strictures as all the others, however special they are in their own heads.

And rightly so. If someone is at higher risk than others they should get more protection, but they shouldn’t be able to dictate where they are sent, or whether they serve their sentence with the opposite sex. Allowing people that choice is what is asinine - not the law that says paedophilia is punishable by jail.

* but note the way the trans lobby want to change the law so that rape - one of the very few crimes that can only be committed by a man - becomes downgraded so that a transwoman commuting it with his penis is considered guilty only of sexual assault.

Doodledog

The Law doesn’t (usually*) differentiate between male and female - if something is illegal it shouldn’t matter whether the perpetrator is a man or a woman.

It is not the law at fault here, it is the tidal wave of idiocy that allows special pleading for those who see themselves as above it all, and who think they have the right to impose their beliefs on the rest of us.

Part of the punishment of a jail sentence is that the offender loses the freedom to eat or sleep or do what they like when they like. They have to fit in, and do as they are told.

Prisoners are no longer ‘Captain Mainwairing of the Home Guard’ or Mrs Bouquet the lady of the house’, with whatever privileges those identities confer. They operate under the same strictures as all the others, however special they are in their own heads.

And rightly so. If someone is at higher risk than others they should get more protection, but they shouldn’t be able to dictate where they are sent, or whether they serve their sentence with the opposite sex. Allowing people that choice is what is asinine - not the law that says paedophilia is punishable by jail.

* but note the way the trans lobby want to change the law so that rape - one of the very few crimes that can only be committed by a man - becomes downgraded so that a transwoman commuting it with his penis is considered guilty only of sexual assault.

* but note the way the trans lobby want to change the law so that rape - one of the very few crimes that can only be committed by a man - becomes downgraded so that a transwoman commuting it with his penis is considered guilty only of sexual assault.

If this is true, it is appalling and frightening. I also read - a tweet from a trans woman (activist?) - who wants to make the terminology "biological male" a slur against trans women, and suggests that "debate is fine" but that this phraseology should not be used in any discussions. Attempting to define the parameters by which this matter can be discussed is censorship - and IMO a method by which they can ultimately close down debate all together.

We really do have a fight on our hands here...

The shutting down debate ended a couple of years ago, some keep trying to resurrect it but it really is over. The debates and discussions being had by high profile women (in the main) would not have happened a few years ago.

I don't care who they are, get them in prison for as long as possible. Solitary would work anywhere

There are legal limits on how long someone can be kept in solitary.
He should be with the other male sex offenders.

Silvergirl

Definitely should be in a male prison until he has reassignment surgery in which case “she” should be in a female prison. Keep it simple.

He is never female.
Surgery never makes a male into a female.
Surgery doesn't remove a male's physical strength or his aggressive tendency.

Would you want to be locked in a cell with such a person Silvergirl?
Or to have to shower with him in communal showers?
Or mix with him in communal areas of the prison?

but note the way the trans lobby want to change the law so that rape - one of the very few crimes that can only be committed by a man - becomes downgraded so that a transwoman committing it with his penis is considered guilty only of sexual assault.

That would apply to every rapist, not only transwomen.

If the trans lobby is pushing for that, tho, it is to avoid people saying that a rapist, by definition, is a male.
Since women can commit sexual assault too and women can have penises and women are of course female.

And yes, that genuinely is the sort of 'reasoning' they're using in order to try to get what they want - which is erasing the categories of 'woman' and 'female' by allowing men to claim to be women and females.

Brief, fun video from Mr Menno (2 mins) on men calling themselves female.

youtu.be/KlThuSKvILc

That would apply to every rapist, not only transwomen.

Well yes, of course. But rapists are men, which is the point. Saying that rape (with a penis) is the same as sexual assault (which can be equally traumatic, but is a different crime for all sorts of cultural and psychological reasons) is removing that difference. Rape is about power and male dominance of women.

Doodledog

*That would apply to every rapist, not only transwomen.*

Well yes, of course. But rapists are men, which is the point. Saying that rape (with a penis) is the same as sexual assault (which can be equally traumatic, but is a different crime for all sorts of cultural and psychological reasons) is removing that difference. Rape is about power and male dominance of women.

Rape is about power and male dominance of women.

Which is exactly what this is about. Get rid of the notion of what we define as rape to further erode women as a protected group. Make it 'illegal' to define trans women as "biological males"... ultimately, women - the threat to male supremacy - will be dissolved completely, with no rights, no say, no power. We will be what they want us to be, completely powerless.