Excellent article on economic migrants from genuine refugee

There are no safe and legal routes ar present and Furedi would have had to get here by whatever means they could.
Primrose don't you realise that often families club together to send their young to a new life in the hope that they will then be able to send for them when they are settled and working.
Interesting to hear that Germany , who have taken in many more immigrants,welcome them to fill the gaps where there are shortages in employment. Here of course they are not allowed to work and thus contribute to this country. This is , of course deliberate .The Tory party desperately looking for votes .

foxie48

Having read the article my first thought is, had the Hungarian uprising happened now instead of in 1956, the 9 year old Frank Furedi would have found himself crossing the channel in a boat to reach the UK with the possibility of being sent to Rwanda. His family would have been travelling without the necessary permission to enter the UK legally and he would have already passed through a number of "safe" countries. Many of the refugees arriving on our shores by boat come from Afghanistan, Iran and other countries where there are highly repressive states. tbh I am struggling to see the difference except we no longer have a properly functioning way of processing refugees and separating them from economic migrants without permission to stay, who should be sent home. I think he is ranting against the House of Lords in an extremely odd way!

I stand with, you foxie48, as well as with WWM2, Grantanow, westendgirl, Luckygirl13, MaisieD and much of what TerriBull has to say. Although I voted remain during the Brexit referendum, I have always maintained that the most shocking and inexplicable omission of the EU parliament has been the failure to work with other global entities to make a just and fair plan to assess the needs, skills and bona fides of asylum seekers, including any family connections in another country, and deploy them accordingly with appropriate support. The failure to draw up and implement and affective plan to deal with Climate Change is a close second. Expecting Greece and Italy - and other of the first countries in the vicinity asylums seekers may reach - is unrealistic, not least because many of those have economies that are even more dysfunctional than our own.

foxie48

Having read the article my first thought is, had the Hungarian uprising happened now instead of in 1956, the 9 year old Frank Furedi would have found himself crossing the channel in a boat to reach the UK with the possibility of being sent to Rwanda. His family would have been travelling without the necessary permission to enter the UK legally and he would have already passed through a number of "safe" countries. Many of the refugees arriving on our shores by boat come from Afghanistan, Iran and other countries where there are highly repressive states. tbh I am struggling to see the difference except we no longer have a properly functioning way of processing refugees and separating them from economic migrants without permission to stay, who should be sent home. I think he is ranting against the House of Lords in an extremely odd way!

This is an extremely good point.

I find it strange that this opinion piece is being held up as an article as though it was an actual journalistic piece.

Why didn't Furedi's parents and their kids stay in Austria - a safe country?

Grantanow. Did you read the article. Frank Furedi and his parents were Jewish and living in Austria in the 1930s. Many in his family who stayed in Austria died in concentration camps. It was called the Holocaust.

Furedi originally emigrated to Canada, thus leapfrogging many safe countries. By 1956, Austria was a safe country for Jews.

M0nica

^Why didn't Furedi's parents and their kids stay in Austria - a safe country?^

Grantanow. Did you read the article. Frank Furedi and his parents were Jewish and living in Austria in the 1930s. Many in his family who stayed in Austria died in concentration camps. It was called the Holocaust.

This was in 1956 and in the article, Furedi, himself, says in fact, the truck was an Austrian ambulance. We were over the border, safe in the free West.

I'm puzzled too foxie. Furedi and his family were fleeing Hungary, not Austria.

The Holocaust is irrelevant. Austria was safe for Jews in 1956. Yes, I did read the article. There was no need to venture further.

Germany have a huge immigrant workforce they can call on but it appears they aren’t the migrants they need. They have a huge problem recruiting skilled workers.

foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/22/skilled-migrants-arent-interested-in-germany/

The suggestion that only refugees from violence and terror are acceptable and economic migrants are somehow not makes no sense. Large chunks of our NHS are staffed with people who chose to emigrate here for financial and life opportunity reasons.

We need to "process" both through our immigration system in a decent and humane way.

I had to smile when I read his entry in wiki, he's a strange bedfellow for anyone on the right and I doubt he'd be welcomed into the LP either. Clearly the DM doesn't mind who they feature as long as they peddle the "right" stuff for their readers. tbh I think he's rather "lost the plot".
A former student radical, he became involved in left-wing politics in Britain in the 1970s; in particular, as a member of the International Socialists (IS), under the pseudonym Frank Richards. With his followers, he was expelled from the IS in 1973 and formed the Revolutionary Communist Group, and then broke from that in 1976 to form the Revolutionary Communist Tendency, refounded as the Revolutionary Communist Party in 1978.[7]

The RCP was distinguished by its contrarianism, commitment to theoretical elaboration and hostility to state intervention in social life. Among its positions were support for the IRA and Saddam Hussein.[7]

In December 1990, the RCP's magazine Living Marxism ran an article by Furedi, entitled "Midnight in the Century", which argued that the corrosive effect of the collapse of both Stalinism and reformism on the working class meant that "for the time being at least, the working class has no political existence".[8] This signalled a re-orientation of the party towards more libertarian positions, and its formal dissolution by the end of the decade.

Thank you Foxie.

some "Expert".
His LinkedIn page shows his current areas of interest.
It takes me back to the ever splitting furious ultra left discussions of the 70's at Uni. Little contact with reality or real people.

No he wouldn't be welcome in the LP.

Foxie48
Would you say that John Humphrys is a strange bedfellow for anyone on the right
He is a regular contributor to the Daily Mail.
Would you say the same for Michael Crick ( founder member of the channel 4 news team) who now is a regular contributor on GBNews.

Luckygirl3

The suggestion that only refugees from violence and terror are acceptable and economic migrants are somehow not makes no sense. Large chunks of our NHS are staffed with people who chose to emigrate here for financial and life opportunity reasons.

We need to "process" both through our immigration system in a decent and humane way.

Large numbers of staff, 24.2%, in the NHS, of minority staff, come here legally , with proof of training etc, and quite rightly undergo orientation and exams, to make sure they are fully qualified to work . My neighbour is one such. No country should be expected to take someone with no documentation , or proof of qualifications just so they can fill a gap in our NHS. If they want to do this there are opportunities , same as when my friend went to Australia, after giving 10 years to NHS.

Good article thanks Primrose53
Also really good interesting comments Terribull👏🏻👏🏻

Germany is now wishing it hadn’t let so many migrants in as there are problems there.
It’s true that all European countries need migrant workers but not uncontrolled migration or thousands arriving every other day illegally on small boats.

Grantanow

Why didn't Furedi's parents and their kids stay in Austria - a safe country? If they arrived on UK shores today they would have been assessed for Rwanda as having travelled through safe countries. Of course, they're white which might have affected the result. Where are the safe and legal routes for refugees? The article fails to explore that.

Austria was a safe country but over 200,000 Hungarians arrived there mainly on foot and the country was soon overwhelmed.

They appealed for other countries to help and Canada offered free transport and support for the first year to Hungarians and Frank Furedi’s family emigrated there. I believe as time went on they took in 300,000 Hungarians but they wanted them and it was all legal.

Frank did not come to The UK until much later by which time he had completed his University education in Canada.

They were genuine refugees as he explains, not economic migrants who destroy their identities and pay people smugglers to get them to the UK, passing through countless safe countries to get here.

growstuff

I'm puzzled too foxie. Furedi and his family were fleeing Hungary, not Austria.

See my post further down. Austria could not cope with so many Hungarians. Canada offered to take them as they had far more room and paid for transport and support.

Grantanow

The Holocaust is irrelevant. Austria was safe for Jews in 1956. Yes, I did read the article. There was no need to venture further.

Yes there was! They could not accommodate them all.

MerylStreep

Germany have a huge immigrant workforce they can call on but it appears they aren’t the migrants they need. They have a huge problem recruiting skilled workers.

foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/22/skilled-migrants-arent-interested-in-germany/

My husband is half German so we have a lot of family out there. They all thought Mother Merkle was crazy when she threw open the doors and said Germany would “take them all”.
They all predicted she would then clear off into the sunset which is exactly what she did leaving everyone else to pick up the mess.

Germany is now paying the price with fights, overcrowding, crimes, unemployment, ghettos where no Germans will enter etc. There are a lot of very unhappy German people now.

Oreo

Good article thanks Primrose53
Also really good interesting comments Terribull👏🏻👏🏻

Germany is now wishing it hadn’t let so many migrants in as there are problems there.
It’s true that all European countries need migrant workers but not uncontrolled migration or thousands arriving every other day illegally on small boats.

In what way is it "good". It is a rant, and an ill thought through rant at that.

It is, of course, ideal for the Mr and Mrs Angry who comprise the bulk of the DM readership. They will reward it with praise. The average person is left with nothing except the uncomfortable feeling of him indulging, and encouraging others to indulge, in their dystopian 1984-style minutes of hate.

Primrose53

MerylStreep

Germany have a huge immigrant workforce they can call on but it appears they aren’t the migrants they need. They have a huge problem recruiting skilled workers.

foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/22/skilled-migrants-arent-interested-in-germany/

My husband is half German so we have a lot of family out there. They all thought Mother Merkle was crazy when she threw open the doors and said Germany would “take them all”.
They all predicted she would then clear off into the sunset which is exactly what she did leaving everyone else to pick up the mess.

Germany is now paying the price with fights, overcrowding, crimes, unemployment, ghettos where no Germans will enter etc. There are a lot of very unhappy German people now.

My family over there would also back this up. Immigrants not integrating, and having a city within cities does not ensure social cohesion.

westendgirl

I have read the article, twice in fact which seems to me to be a diatribe against the House of Lords. He talks about genuine refugees but fails to say that there is no way for the genuine refugee to enter the country, so the refugees from countries such as Afghanistan, Syria , who are often have much to offer and are very well educated are left in limbo.
I was more interested listening to how Germany, where they have many more immigrants, has been glad to use the talents of these people to fill their gaps.

I'd like to know your evidence of "so much to offer". Such as ??. Evidence to show they have, so many on here seem to say they have good English, or relatives here, not seen much evidence of that either. Otherwise why are we having to put so many up in hotels, sacking the workforce employed there, or paying for translation services.
Notice Canada are not clamouring to take some of these migrants from Europe, as they did with the Hungarians in the past.perhaps its because these have left a safe country, France, Italy etc,and not a war zone, such as the Hungarians, or more recently the Ukrainians. This Government, and Labour will do no better,have and will let the people of this country down. We spend more on this than improving the lives of the poorest and homeless of our own. Read a recent report from France about our liberal and lax employment laws which enable people to easily enter our workforce,hence that is a draw to come to the UK. Germany only allows work if the asylum claim has been accepted, then as here, you are given refugee status, and are allowed to work. .Also,in UK, if your asylum application has been more than 12 months in processing, and not your fault, you can apply to work. All verified on Gov web sites.

DaisyAnneReturns

Oreo

Good article thanks Primrose53
Also really good interesting comments Terribull👏🏻👏🏻

Germany is now wishing it hadn’t let so many migrants in as there are problems there.
It’s true that all European countries need migrant workers but not uncontrolled migration or thousands arriving every other day illegally on small boats.

In what way is it "good". It is a rant, and an ill thought through rant at that.

It is, of course, ideal for the Mr and Mrs Angry who comprise the bulk of the DM readership. They will reward it with praise. The average person is left with nothing except the uncomfortable feeling of him indulging, and encouraging others to indulge, in their dystopian 1984-style minutes of hate.

Am neither angry or of the DM readership.
My opinion that it’s a good article on the subject, that’s all.
Am sure I’m an average person too.
You didn’t like it, fair enough.

This forum is not all about you Oreo.

I notice you very carefully created a defection so you didn't have to answer my question.

You may not be a DM reader but the tools of populism have filtered down to many from them and from others.

MerylStreep

Foxie48
Would you say that John Humphrys is a strange bedfellow for anyone on the right
He is a regular contributor to the Daily Mail.
Would you say the same for Michael Crick ( founder member of the channel 4 news team) who now is a regular contributor on GBNews.

Would depend completely on what JH says and writes. He describes himself as a "natural liberal" on wiki and says he changes his mind all the time. David Crick is a member of the LP (or was!). I've had a quick look at the DM online, JH's offering today is "What I told Huw over lunch about what it takes to be a trusted face of the BBC" hardly scintillating biting political comment. I understand the DM pays well.