Excellent article on economic migrants from genuine refugee

DaisyAnneReturns

This forum is not all about you Oreo.

I notice you very carefully created a defection so you didn't have to answer my question.

You may not be a DM reader but the tools of populism have filtered down to many from them and from others.

Defection?
Let’s turn this on it’s head, which points did you disagree with in the article?
I agreed with all of them and as a real asylum seeker Furedi sees the difference between refugees in need of help and economic migrants here to earn more money than they could at home.

Neither am I angry or or regular DM reader, I find it an annoying website to say the least. I do go and sometimes read if directed to have a look at something relevant by a GN member (as I think many do but don't want to admit to).

And, DaisyAnneReturns this forum is not all about you either.

You must be new Oreo so will update you.

Normally I use specialist dictating and checking software but I killed my computer (although I still blame Microsoft). The tablet I am using doesn't have the memory to load my software. So I am using the tablets dictating software and readily available online checker. The first is really really, whatever word you would like to use for not great.

Luckily none of this stops me using my brain. However, it does mean the odd oddity pops up. I'm afraid then it's down to you to work out what it meant. As far as I'm aware that has always been an unwritten rule on GN. We do not pick other people up on their spellings, their grammar or anything of that ilk, unless we're in pedants corner.

No let's not "turn it on its head". You do seem to have picked up a lot of very bad populist habits. You're not going to answer me. So in usual populist/DM manner you try and flip the question on its head and turn it around on me. That seems like such a waste of my time when posts take so long to write.

(Just in case your brain isn't working it was meant to be deflection)

toscalily

Neither am I angry or or regular DM reader, I find it an annoying website to say the least. I do go and sometimes read if directed to have a look at something relevant by a GN member (as I think many do but don't want to admit to).

And, DaisyAnneReturns this forum is not all about you either.

But I didn't suggest it was toscalily.

DaisyAnneReturns

This forum is not all about you Oreo.

I notice you very carefully created a defection so you didn't have to answer my question.

You may not be a DM reader but the tools of populism have filtered down to many from them and from others.

Extremely pompous.

It sure is something Primrose53 😂

The fact remains that the Furedi family exercised a choice to leave Austria and go to Canada using a safe and legal route. That is not the kind of choice enjoyed by refugees now seeking asylum in the UK because in most cases there is no safe and legal route and they are at risk of being deported to Rwanda which is hardly a safe destination given its history. Labelling everyone crossing on small boats as having destroyed their papers and pretending to be refugees begs the question: if Braverman could display some competence in speeding up the Home Office assessments we might find that most of them qualify as refugees. Of those assessed so far I gather a high proportion are so regarded and have been granted leave to remain in the UK.

But everyone crossing on small boats have NOT destroyed their papers. Many of them keep their papers to prove who they are, how old they are, and where they come from, as well as evidence germane to their claim.

Yes, SOME immigrants do destroy their papers, but not all. Often those without have had their papers taken from them by the people smugglers.

as a real asylum seeker Furedi sees the difference between refugees in need of help and economic migrants here to earn more money than they could at home.

Perhaps the Home Office could use his clairvoyant powers to speed up processing the huge backlog of asylum applications😁

The Home Office doesn’t need clairvoyant powers, they need to train more staff to work more quickly.It’s progressing at a snails pace and has been for a long time.First, do as Germany is doing and send all Albanian men straight back home, second process teenagers and any children or mothers with children or families with or without their papers and any identification, third, those with ID and last of all those men without it.It’s a disgrace and a shambles at the mo.

And Braverman is responsible for the shambolic performance of the Home Office. She should be sacked.

Why this contempt for economic migrants? All but very few come from desperately poor countries, where all that awaits them is unemployment and starvation.

Those prepared to take the risk of that difficult journey, often with two hazardous sea crossings, Mediterranean and Channel, are probably those with the highest courage resilience and determination in their countries and will be an asset to whichever country they end up in.

No, I am not arguing for open borders, and unchecked immigration. I am saying that we should respect all those who come over here, criminal element excepted. Ask yourselves whether you would have the courage to make the long uncertain journey they make, if it was the only way you could see to support your family and move them out of grinding poverty.

Are they any less admirable than all those Irish immigrants who fled Ireland in the 19th and 20th century for just the same reasons? I am descended from just such immigrants.

I find it a depressing and hostile piece I'm afraid.

Anyone who bemoans an attempt to hurry up processing of people who may be refugees, who resents a block on sending gay men back to certain countries (where they will be persecuted) and who objects to the pressure for "safe and legal" routes, is not someone to be listening to. In my opinion.

Where is the humanity here?

Thank you M0nica for your words. As I have stated before, I am the great granddaughter of an ( Italian) economic migrant. He brought his family with him and supported them by setting up a small business. Three generations on , my children, and those of my cousins, are doctors and nurses, engineers and headteachers. Interestingly, my PhD student daughter is living in a Scandinavian country with her family- so maybe the economic- migrant blood is in her genes! I'm not suggesting that we should have open borders, just gently reminding people that not all economic migrants are violent benefit seekers.

Chocolatelovinggran

Thank you M0nica for your words. As I have stated before, I am the great granddaughter of an ( Italian) economic migrant. He brought his family with him and supported them by setting up a small business. Three generations on , my children, and those of my cousins, are doctors and nurses, engineers and headteachers. Interestingly, my PhD student daughter is living in a Scandinavian country with her family- so maybe the economic- migrant blood is in her genes! I'm not suggesting that we should have open borders, just gently reminding people that not all economic migrants are violent benefit seekers.

I don’t think anybody has suggested that ALL economic migrants are benefit seekers. Anyway, I imagine 3 generations ago there were not benefits that attracted your family.

Many people will agree with you that we should not have open borders.👍

We probably all agree that "open borders" aren't possible or desirable Primrose53.

Excellent post Monica
mayisay no I m not the shortsighted one I ve done work with refugees and know the value.
No humanity at all notspagetti just shortsighted racism fed by the government The old divide and rule theory not moved on from the Nazi regime at all I m afraid We haven’t moved on an iota I grew up with notices in the windows of houses to let ‘No Irish no black no dogs’ and the same type of people are still around
And to the poster who said there’s no women or children on the boats how wrong are you I believe 100 children died in the hold of the boat that went down in Greek waters !!

At least threads like this show you the names of folks you would never want to be near

I have come to the conclusion that Furedi's article in the Daily Wail is without merit.

The article in the DM was inflammatory, designed to encourage hostility rather than compassion. Migration from one place to another is what has driven humanity and made us who we are. This is not something that we can make "go away" by draconian measures or by encouraging hatred. If you were born in a stable country with a developed economy, you got very lucky.
We now spend a third of our overseas development money which was cut (in 2021, I think) in the UK supporting migrants. Surely, if we want to reduce the numbers of people desperate for better lives, it would be better to help them in their own countries rather than in the UK? People don't leave their families, walk across deserts, live in camps, get in unsafe boats etc because they are going on holiday. They do it because they and their families are starving or in fear of their lives. I would do it too if I had to but fortunately I got the gold star when I was born!
My GGD worked in the mines all of his life at 72 he and his 10 year old GS walked to Manchester to dig the Manchester ship canal because there was no work available where he lived. They would have been seen as filthy itinerants, sleeping under hedges and relying on the kindness of strangers. He would have been illiterate, uncouth with only his labour of worth to anyone. He survived, he sent money home and I am here. Most people, if they dig a bit will find similar stories in their history. Wherever we are born, whatever the colour of our skin, we are all people with the same basic needs.
Our immigration and asylum system has been under funded so people who could be working and contributing to our economy can't because they are still waiting for documents and those who would be sent home are being held in hotels and hostels. It's easy to focus on the wrong issues, particularly if there are articles published which encourage us to do that. Other countries are processing many more people than we do and doing it efficiently, why aren't we?

BlueBelle

Excellent post Monica
mayisay no I m not the shortsighted one I ve done work with refugees and know the value.
No humanity at all notspagetti just shortsighted racism fed by the government The old divide and rule theory not moved on from the Nazi regime at all I m afraid We haven’t moved on an iota I grew up with notices in the windows of houses to let ‘No Irish no black no dogs’ and the same type of people are still around
And to the poster who said there’s no women or children on the boats how wrong are you I believe 100 children died in the hold of the boat that went down in Greek waters !!

At least threads like this show you the names of folks you would never want to be near

That was a ship not a rubber dinghy and had come from Libya. A tragedy yes if any children were drowned but I can’t see that it was ever confirmed. I read “may have been”.

You watch footage on the news of dinghies arriving and you will hardly see a woman or a child. very rare.

Just read the article in The Daily Mail found it very interesting thanks for posting Primrose

I agree with all he says re the unelected House of Lords trying to wreck The Illegal Migration Bill.

70 years ago the world was a different place, the UK has a long tradition of welcoming genuine refugees and helping countries in need but enough is enough we can't house or care for our own people.

Nicenanny3

Just read the article in The Daily Mail found it very interesting thanks for posting Primrose

I agree with all he says re the unelected House of Lords trying to wreck The Illegal Migration Bill.

70 years ago the world was a different place, the UK has a long tradition of welcoming genuine refugees and helping countries in need but enough is enough we can't house or care for our own people.

Crazy isn’t it? Why don’t they say we are taking no more people (unless they are people we really need for work purposes) until we have sorted our own problems and then we will have a rethink. It’s not unkind, racist, lacking compassion or anything else, it’s commonsense.

Not a word on here about all the people (approx 100) who lost their jobs in a hotel in Wales because it is to be used for migrants. Jobs are in short enough supply in that area at the best of times. It seems there is no sympathy for them.

Also there is a shortage of housing, rental accommodation in particular no one even mentions that do they in parliament especially the Labour Party and it's obvious we have had a population explosion and we can't cope. My son has rental properties in Manchester (Stockport) and actually he has benefitted from the influx of Hongkongers (who came here legitimately) rental properties are in short supply and the rents have gone up and the Hongkongers paid 1 year in advance obviously they have money.

The Illegal Migration Bill is a deterrent and we surely need something to stop these illegals arriving on our shores. The Labour Party, Justin Welby and the unelected House of Lords don’t have any other solutions or policies do they, I'm sick of these out of touch do gooders.

Primrose53

Nicenanny3

Just read the article in The Daily Mail found it very interesting thanks for posting Primrose

I agree with all he says re the unelected House of Lords trying to wreck The Illegal Migration Bill.

70 years ago the world was a different place, the UK has a long tradition of welcoming genuine refugees and helping countries in need but enough is enough we can't house or care for our own people.

Crazy isn’t it? Why don’t they say we are taking no more people (unless they are people we really need for work purposes) until we have sorted our own problems and then we will have a rethink. It’s not unkind, racist, lacking compassion or anything else, it’s commonsense.

Not a word on here about all the people (approx 100) who lost their jobs in a hotel in Wales because it is to be used for migrants. Jobs are in short enough supply in that area at the best of times. It seems there is no sympathy for them.

No of course there isn't.

Very early one spring morning this year, in a quintessential English village cricket pitch not far from the coast, I met a man, probably 30ish, of Middle Eastern appearance, preparing to set off on his bike.

His bike was festooned with polythene-wrapped packages tied with string. We smiled at each other and wished each other good day, and went our separate ways. I thought that bench on the cricket pavilion porch would have made a cosy bed for the night.

I hope things went well for him.