Lucy Letby found guilty.

She should be brought into court (shackled if needs be) like always has been in the past She should have no rights any more I m afraid and that should go for every prisoner found guilty of horrendous crimes like this I very much doubt she would use any violence she is only strong against a baby but she should have no concessions nor should any other convicted killer

Has anyone consider that LL might get pleasure or satisfaction from hearing the grieving parents tell how she has devastated and destroyed their lives? What she doesn't want to be there for is the sentencing that will follow, which will be her held up to the world for humiliation and exoriation.

It has often occurred to me that if i had killed someone for what I considered good reason, I would get a real power and success surge from hearing about how much damage I had done to the living.

If someone killed someone close to me. I would not want to deliver the story of my suffering in front of the perpetrator of the crime.

Casdon

Louella12

The fact that some of the managers were ex health professionals makes their attitude and behaviour ten times worse.

One of them actually said to a concerned consultant that she'd be happy if something happened to a baby after they'd refused to remove Letby from the ward. Mrs Karen Rees. Look up what she said. Shocking.

Also, to anybody suggesting this case took so many years to come to court was due to lack of evidence. It really wasn't. They assigned a detective per baby to work. They had meetings every 6 months where they started to see, with horror, the link. This sort of case takes months, years. They have to make sure that everything is done to the nth degree.

I watched a documentary the other night about the Camden Killer. Anthony John Hardy. Body parts in bin bags had been found. Search ensued. Hardy's flat was searched and they located a torso in his living room. There was a bloody hacksaw with his DNA by the body . CCTV showed him disposing of the bin bags. They managed to track down that the bin bags were from bags in his room. Yet they still didn't have enough to arrest him. Despite all that evidence. there was concern that the case could be thrown out of court . Eventually they managed to trap him when he went to pick up some photos of his crimes from a local chemist.

It's not easy. It's not simple. And in a case like this it's certainly not going to be fast.

I hope that the managers are held to account and at the very least apologise for their dire behaviour in this matter.

They are not ‘ex’ health professionals, they ARE health professionals. One of the conditions of managing clinical staff is that you retain your professional registration, and work at least a minimum of a designated number of days in a clinical setting. Non clinical managers do not directly manage junior clinical staff in hospitals.

The initial investigation took over a year before any arrest was made Louella12. That in itself is unusually long.

Why do people try to skate over what actually happened and draw their own conclusions. I just don’t get it. Maybe it’s trying to make sense of something that is incomprehensible to most of us.

There is going to be an inquiry, which will ensure any systemic and individual failings are exposed, and people will be held to account, although I personally think a public inquiry would be ideal rather than commissioned by the government.

I don't think you have any idea. These managers were not working these wards. I know this very well so I shan't be arguing with you about that.

Also, those investigations you were talking about earlier. Have you seen what has been said? The managers would not release clinical notes. Making those investigations pointless.

The initial investigation took over a year before any arrest was made Louella12. That in itself is unusually long.

It really isn't. Not at all.

Louella12

Casdon

Louella12

The fact that some of the managers were ex health professionals makes their attitude and behaviour ten times worse.

One of them actually said to a concerned consultant that she'd be happy if something happened to a baby after they'd refused to remove Letby from the ward. Mrs Karen Rees. Look up what she said. Shocking.

Also, to anybody suggesting this case took so many years to come to court was due to lack of evidence. It really wasn't. They assigned a detective per baby to work. They had meetings every 6 months where they started to see, with horror, the link. This sort of case takes months, years. They have to make sure that everything is done to the nth degree.

I watched a documentary the other night about the Camden Killer. Anthony John Hardy. Body parts in bin bags had been found. Search ensued. Hardy's flat was searched and they located a torso in his living room. There was a bloody hacksaw with his DNA by the body . CCTV showed him disposing of the bin bags. They managed to track down that the bin bags were from bags in his room. Yet they still didn't have enough to arrest him. Despite all that evidence. there was concern that the case could be thrown out of court . Eventually they managed to trap him when he went to pick up some photos of his crimes from a local chemist.

It's not easy. It's not simple. And in a case like this it's certainly not going to be fast.

I hope that the managers are held to account and at the very least apologise for their dire behaviour in this matter.

They are not ‘ex’ health professionals, they ARE health professionals. One of the conditions of managing clinical staff is that you retain your professional registration, and work at least a minimum of a designated number of days in a clinical setting. Non clinical managers do not directly manage junior clinical staff in hospitals.

The initial investigation took over a year before any arrest was made Louella12. That in itself is unusually long.

Why do people try to skate over what actually happened and draw their own conclusions. I just don’t get it. Maybe it’s trying to make sense of something that is incomprehensible to most of us.

There is going to be an inquiry, which will ensure any systemic and individual failings are exposed, and people will be held to account, although I personally think a public inquiry would be ideal rather than commissioned by the government.

I don't think you have any idea. These managers were not working these wards. I know this very well so I shan't be arguing with you about that.

Also, those investigations you were talking about earlier. Have you seen what has been said? The managers would not release clinical notes. Making those investigations pointless.

I do, I know exactly how it works. The clinical nurse manager would know the staff on the ward very well, she was the one who rated Lucy Letsby as an exemplary nurse and supported her. The hierarchy of the paediatricians would require them all to cover NICU, and the clinical director is always a working doctor in the specialty they are responsible for, everywhere I ever worked. Obviously the Director of Nursing and the Medical Director were further removed from day to day management, that is the nature of their roles, but they would be professionally qualified, experienced and updated in clinical skills, that’s a requirement for their jobs. Are you denying that’s the case?
Did you not read that Lucy Letsby had her nursing notes at home? I’ve clearly said on several occasions that in my opinion the police should have been involved earlier. The review by the Royal College was inadequate in that it was incomplete, which is also a significant failure.
If there had been clear evidence the police would have made an arrest sooner. You must be underestimating quite how complex this case was if you don’t believe that. How many court cases go on for 10 months because of the volume of evidence? Not many.

Can someone please enlighten me? Has this ridiculous law that allows murderers to refuse to attend sentencing, always been the case. If not, when was it brought in?

I suspect that Lucy Letby is a severe suicide risk.
Tricoteuses may disagree.

Aveline

I suspect that Lucy Letby is a severe suicide risk.
Tricoteuses may disagree.

I think you’re right.

Casdon

Aveline

I suspect that Lucy Letby is a severe suicide risk.
Tricoteuses may disagree.

I think you’re right.

I would think so too. I'm sure she will be put on suicide watch.

I don’t get why people feel so strongly about her attending court to hear the sentence. It doesn’t make any difference one way or the other. She will still be sentenced, be told why, and have to serve that sentence.

To force Lucy Letby to attend her sentencing could well involve a physical intervention by prison officers. Their job is demanding, they’re often involved in physical responses to violent prisoners. I can see no purpose in expecting them to manhandle this prisoner into the dock. She’ll face a life sentence, what difference will it make for her to stand and listen.

The idea it might give the grieving parents closure doesn’t convince me. ‘Closure’ is an often misused word. These parents won’t get closure. The rest of their lives will involve anniversaries, birth of their precious babies, concerns in the unit, their baby’s death or life long injuries at the hands of this woman. That’s before the year they’d start primary/high school etc etc.
let her sit in her cell, still claiming innocence. We can’t change that. Let’s hope the Court can ensure she serves full life tarriff

Grandma70s

I don’t get why people feel so strongly about her attending court to hear the sentence. It doesn’t make any difference one way or the other. She will still be sentenced, be told why, and have to serve that sentence.

I think anyone who is brought to trial accused of murder or other heinous crimes against other people should be forced to stand in the dock and listen to the verdict and then the sentence.

Olivia Pratt-Korbel's mother is fighting to ensure that this will happen in future and I support her.

It could make a huge difference to the parents. I think I would get some closure and feelings of justice being done to see her squirm when she is sentence to life in prison. Common sense really.

Well, let's hope none of us ever find ourselves in that situation. I can only go by my experience in sitting through numerous court trials over the years and then interviewing victims, when many of them said they did find it helpful to be there for the sentencing and to see justice being done (their words).

I agree Blondiescot.

I’ve just read this, which indicates that the report from the Royal College about the baby deaths was not complete, but that the Non-executive Board were not told that was the case, so agreed action based on incomplete action. That is serious.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-66553970

Well said Iam.
She wouldn’t squirm Silvergirl. She would probably remain emotionless because she knows what’s coming. That would probably make the parents feel she couldn’t care less. It would not make ‘a huge difference’ to them.

Wanting to see her ‘squirm’ seems a very primitive reaction, something that we as adults should have grown out of.

Hard to say for sure but it would appear that LL does not want to appear in court for some reason. It must make her feel uncomfortable at least. For this reason alone I’d make her attend. She deserves to suffer a little indignity don’t you think?

Callistemon21

Grandma70s

I don’t get why people feel so strongly about her attending court to hear the sentence. It doesn’t make any difference one way or the other. She will still be sentenced, be told why, and have to serve that sentence.

I think anyone who is brought to trial accused of murder or other heinous crimes against other people should be forced to stand in the dock and listen to the verdict and then the sentence.

Olivia Pratt-Korbel's mother is fighting to ensure that this will happen in future and I support her.

I agree with you. It was always the case until recent years that people had to be in court for sentencing.

I understand it was Starmer who changed all that when he was Attorney General. Thanks for that Keir, great idea ….. not.

We are now in a position where the criminal dictates to us what is going to happen. Same as what they call “dirty protests” in prisons where they smear their cells with excrement. I would leave them cleaning stuff and refuse to let them out until they cleaned their mess. We are too soft.

Primrose - I take it you’ve never worked in a prison

Silvergirl
squirm, uncomfortable
You’re talking about a woman who had the brass front to persuade her mangers to get consultants to write a letter of apology to her for putting her name in the picture.

Seeing this woman squirm won't bring any of those babies back. I'm uncomfortable at others wanting to see this. Her life is over. Justice has been served. Surely we're more grown up than wanting to see her suffer.

Exactly MerylStreep. We don’t have the psychiatric reports but what little we do know is she was found not be suffering a treatable mental health problem. ‘Forcing’ her to attend sentencing won’t change any of that

It's not about her.

If it helps victims of these crimes to look at the perpetrator when they are sentenced then I think anything that may help them is a good thing.