Lucy Letby found guilty.

It's not about her
Well, that didn't sound how I meant it to.

Her feelings are irrelevant here.

Iam64
As you know, to squirm and feel uncomfortable you have to have empathy, something she didn’t have.

Callistemon - I agree that her feelings are irrelevant

Silvergirl - Hard to say for sure but it would appear that LL does not want to appear in court for some reason.

Some of the reports I read said she didn't show much reaction to proceedings until her married medic friend made an appearance to testify and she fled the courtroom. I get the impression that much of what she did was to increase her attachment to and time with this man and that the babies were tragic pawns in her obsession. Time will tell.

I can only imagine the grief and distress that those parents must feel given the systemic failure to protect their sweet little ones. And it was a failure. Tragedies often occur when management puts an organization's reputation first and individuals' safety second.

GMarie, Yes, I think it could well have been related to her “obsession” with the doctor. The podcasts I listened to revealed that he was very supportive towards her every time a baby became seriously ill or died. He texted her or met up with her to discuss the event. It could have been her warped way of connecting with him. As you say, the poor babies were just a means to get close to him. What an awful tragedy. We may never know for sure but this makes some sense.

I think those three managers behaved disgracefully and that they’ve left doesn’t help at all. They were given very generous leaving packages. I’m sure the bereaved parents are delighted that the managers who insisted that seven consultants write a letter of apology to LL, are now enjoying retirement in comfort thanks to the largesse of the British public.

Only the Medical Director has retired maddyone. The Director of Nursing has moved to another role within the NHS, and the Executive on call senior nurse is still at the hospital. I can’t see what has happened to the Neonatal Unit Senior Nurse.

The Director of Nursing has moved to another role within the NHS, and the Executive on call senior nurse is still at the hospital

Good grief!
How can other staff work with these people? 😲

Yes, Maddyone. No wonder the NHS is struggling financially. It makes me very angry. What must the poor parents be feeling.

Casdon

Only the Medical Director has retired maddyone. The Director of Nursing has moved to another role within the NHS, and the Executive on call senior nurse is still at the hospital. I can’t see what has happened to the Neonatal Unit Senior Nurse.

Oh I thought they’d all gone Casdon. I think it’s disgraceful that they have been moved sideways. They were told several times by consultant doctors that there was a serious problem with this nurse, but they ignored and prevaricated and then insisted that these senior doctors, with years of experience, write a letter of apology to her. It really defeats any sense or reason.

As I keep banging on about, anyone who knows anyone who works in the NHS, especially in admin. knows that something has gone very wrong.

maddyone

Casdon

Only the Medical Director has retired maddyone. The Director of Nursing has moved to another role within the NHS, and the Executive on call senior nurse is still at the hospital. I can’t see what has happened to the Neonatal Unit Senior Nurse.

Oh I thought they’d all gone Casdon. I think it’s disgraceful that they have been moved sideways. They were told several times by consultant doctors that there was a serious problem with this nurse, but they ignored and prevaricated and then insisted that these senior doctors, with years of experience, write a letter of apology to her. It really defeats any sense or reason.

Not as far as the records show, they haven’t retired. I think it’s unlikely there were any payouts either, the Medical Director retired of his own volition as far as I could see, he was over 60. Normally in the NHS payouts are only made (with Board approval) when people are made redundant.
I don’t think we are going to know exactly what happened until the inquiry.

I hope your right about pay outs, but I wouldn’t be surprised as it has been reported, but of course the reporting not be true.
However we do know that these people were told by their highly qualified consultants, on several occasions, that there were serious concerns about LL. We also know that these concerns were brushed aside. We know that because we’ve seen one of the consultants interviewed on the news and he said as much. We also know that these seven highly qualified and concerned consultants were made to sign a letter of apology to LL. We know that because the letter was publicised on the news. It was shown with the names of the consultants covered over to avoid identification, but two of those consultants have spoken out and been identified. We know that one of the consultants eventually told these managers that if they didn’t go to the police, he would. We know that because he’s been interviewed by the news and said as much. So we do know a lot. And what we know must lead us to conclude that these managers were negligent in their duty of care to their tiny patients. No doubt the inquiry will eventually tell us that lessons have been learned, and this won’t happen again. But the lessons won’t have been learnt because we were told that after the Beverley Allitt inquiry and yet it’s happened again.

I think some of you are getting it wrong The reason she should be in the courtroom for sentencing is NOTHING to do with seeing her squirm and nothing to do with giving the parents the ability to see her get the sentence BUT simply she should have absolutely NO say in what she wants to do anymore she should have no power whatsoever she should now be powerless like those babies and that goes for every other prisoner of heinous crimes too
They should not be able to dictate what they can and can’t do Their power should be gone

I think the poster who said it may well have all been to do with the consultants attention may have hit the nail on the head that makes a kind of sense She got his attention, his sympathy, with each little death and she needed it more and more at whatever cost ……it was her drug

Callistemon21

Luckygirl3

The most worrying thing for me is the length of time it took to realize something was wrong.

There is a thread about anger.

Yes, I'm angry because Consultant Paediatricians who had concerns about her were ignored by management and in fact were threatened with being reported to the GMC when they expressed those concerns. The management at the hospital defended her without a proper investigation and said she was being 'victimised'.
More babies died as a result of their deliberate inactions.
As reported on the BBC lunchtime news.

Those responsible for allowing this to continue need to be investigated and charged if found guilty of a cover-up or negligence 😡

Do poeple who lose jobs, lose pensions too?

In the volunteer case I was involved in[going to emphasise again, nothing on the scale of this case], the person who was the victim, was as much concerned about his pension as he was about his job.

He went ahead with his complaint but not without a lot of angst on his part.

The Consultant Paediatricians in this case would have been concerned about the potential loss of their pensions too, if they had been reported?

MayBee70

I really don’t understand all this. It said the first case was a baby that was given insulin when she was on duty. Why, if it was found that a baby had been given insulin which it obviously couldn’t have done without medical intervention wasn’t there a full scale enquiry?

It was marked down as "medication error"

There were 4 "incidents" of "medication" error marked down near, or at the beginning. 3 babies died.

Nurse LL was on duty on all 4 shifts.
All happened within the space of about 1 month I think.

Heads should roll and roll hard the complete and utter cover up lost more and more little lives
The first one should have been a huge red flag with everyone who was present when that little one became so ill throughly checked (nurses have to sign for medications and write it down) It wouldn’t have saved that first baby if it was the first but would have saved the others

I actually think that the person in charge at that hospital should go to jail for aiding and abetting a criminal and for failure to show any duty of care responsibilities. Their job is to look after the hospital and that includes patients as well as staff. It is beyond just terminating their employment, they should be charged with negligence at the very least.

I agree BueBelle, Nanna8, and fancythat. It really appears, just from what we do know, and we don’t know everything, that these three managers were negligent in their duty of care towards their patients. The fact that apparently two of them are still in situ is disgusting in my opinion. LL murdered and harmed the babies and they enabled her. Without their support fewer babies would have been dead. And that’s the nub of it.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/head-lucy-letbys-hospital-left-27555862

It’s in plenty of other main papers but whichever one you choose someone will make political comments.

According to todays Times the hospital were going to help Letby study for a masters degree and there was talk of her moving to Alder Hey. It’s all beyond comprehension. Consultants are like gods. Why were they ignored when they voiced their concerns?

The Liverpool Echo reports that Mr Letby sr was given an apology after attending a meeting with his daughter. I know that sometimes a friend or relative can accompany a person in a disciplinary matter but in this instance, was Mr Letby able to influence the outcome of that meeting? I can understand why a father would support his daughter but in this situation, it was simply wrong.

They certainly went out of their way to appease one nurse!

Apart from Lucy Letby, the three people who should be held accountable are:
Tony Chambers, then Head of Countess of Chester NHS Trust, who left C of C following a vote of no confidence in September 2018, but went on to lucrative posts within NHS Trusts in London, Essex, Cornwall and Sussex. He has just retired.
Ian Harvey, then C of C Medical Director, retired a month after LL was arrested in 2018.
Allison Kelly, then Director of Nursing, stayed at C of C until 2021 and is now working in a similar role in the Northern Care Alliance NHS Foundation Trust.
I don't understand why they were not called to give evidence during the trial.
They should face a trial for criminal negligence; if they had heeded the Doctors' concerns about the mortality rate in the neo-natal unit some children would still be alive; if that isn't criminal negligence I don't know what is.
An Enquiry will not have the power to sanction them in any way, just elicit the usual cries of underfunding, lack of staff, pressure; when these problems could be partly addressed by removing the absurd salaries and pension pots these people negotiate and making them work harder.
Typical of the attitude of these people is the fact that large swathes of the car park for a local hospital are assigned to management, and nurses on shifts in the middle of the night are not allowed to use them and have to walk through dark, ill-lit streets to park their cars. A legal challenge failed to shift them, perk of the job apparently.

MayBee70

According to todays Times the hospital were going to help Letby study for a masters degree and there was talk of her moving to Alder Hey. It’s all beyond comprehension. Consultants are like gods. Why were they ignored when they voiced their concerns?

I think Consultants are like gods to us mere mortals.
In a Hospital setting, it appears that they are not. Not in the eyes of NHS Management, or whatever they are called.