Lucy Letby found guilty.

I also think they were criminally negligent eazybee. Obviously it would have to go to trial/judgement, but these people made a positive contribution to helping LL continue on her murderous spree. They are guilty of gross misconduct in my opinion.

fancythat

MayBee70

According to todays Times the hospital were going to help Letby study for a masters degree and there was talk of her moving to Alder Hey. It’s all beyond comprehension. Consultants are like gods. Why were they ignored when they voiced their concerns?

I think Consultants are like gods to us mere mortals.
In a Hospital setting, it appears that they are not. Not in the eyes of NHS Management, or whatever they are called.

Well, I don't think Consultants are gods (although I've come across one or two who think they are!). However, I do know they are intelligent, highly educated people and I respect them and their profession.
The problem was that the hospital managers in this case thought they themselves were gods and had no respect for the views of the Consultants.

Many professionals have little faith in an enquiry, including one the was involved in the Bristol horror.
His words we know what they are going to say
A shocking fact I heard this morning.
43% of trust managers have no clinical background 😡

MerylStreep

Many professionals have little faith in an enquiry, including one the was involved in the Bristol horror.
His words we know what they are going to say
A shocking fact I heard this morning.
43% of trust managers have no clinical background 😡

In the Lucy Letby case though, every single one of the managers involved was a nurse or a doctor, including the Chief Executive.

Maybe that made it worse.

It was absolutely disgraceful how the managers tried to force the Medicals to sign an apology. how undermining and shameful for them.. Thankgoodness they had to courage to take their concerns to the police. They are the real heroes

I think that it is not simply the fact that management did not take the threat seriously but they even went so far as to threaten the doctors with "consequences" if they did not write a letter of apology to Letby. That is taking it to another level. Presumably they were worried that there might be "consequences" for them if they were seen to "harass" an employee. The laws which address harassment at work have good intentions, but in this case it backfired. It looks as though management were more worried about that than the possibility of a killer in their midst. I do have a tiny bit of sympathy with them as it must have seemed more than unlikely and beyond belief.

fancythat

Maybe that made it worse.

I don’t know fancythat. With five professionals involved in the process it seems very strange to me that they didn’t refer it to the police sooner when their own investigations had not revealed who was responsible. Everybody is tempted by the prospect of hanging the blame on faceless non professional managers, but that’s not what happened here, which I think makes it more unpalatable. I think a full public inquiry is needed, because we can speculate all we like, as can the media but that’s all it is, without the detailed information about the internal investigation and disciplinary processes they followed. As far as I know that hasn’t been in the public domain.

As I said, they seemed to bend over backwards for this one nurse. I understand that she was taking out a grievance against them but the NHS employs thousands of people. Surely people taking out grievances happens all the time. I'm not sure what they were so afraid of in this case.

Kate1949

As I said, they seemed to bend over backwards for this one nurse. I understand that she was taking out a grievance against them but the NHS employs thousands of people. Surely people taking out grievances happens all the time. I'm not sure what they were so afraid of in this case.

Yes, grievances are part of the normal business in any organisation so I can’t see that having been a reason not to take action. My hunch is that the investigative process was inadequate which left them without proof. At that point the police should have been called in my opinion, but that said we are only acting on supposition, there’s so much we don’t know because it wasn’t the direct focus of the court case.

If Letby had an obsession about a married doctor who was especially compassionate or kind to her when these babies died, yes, I can see the beginnings of a motive.
Looking good in a crisis- feeling flattered ? Mistaking kindness and compassion for a romantic attachment?
Attention-seeking (also seen in how she “stalked” some of the parents, gave them a lock of their baby’s hair etc) this all makes sense and would substantiate our opinion of her as an immature narcissist.
What a mess.

It was said that she enjoyed meals out and at least one trip away with this doctor. She already had his attention.

These are not faceless managers; they are highly paid executives with considerable power, and an expectation of sound judgement; they chose to use it to over-rule doctors raising very legitimate concerns.
They insisted on reinstating a nurse with a great body of suspicion hanging over her in the very place where she could do most damage.
Seven dead babies and six attempted murders.

For this lethal misjudgement they should be sacked and/or forfeit their pensions.

Quite eazybee.
Lucy Letby killed and damaged the babies.
These managers enabled her.

Enough information has come into the public forum to enable posters and other members of the public to form a view.
It is not good enough to hide behind we don’t know all the facts.
No we don’t, but we know enough!

Kate1949

It was said that she enjoyed meals out and at least one trip away with this doctor. She already had his attention.

Addicted to the attention, though? Obsessed with him?

maddyone

Enough information has come into the public forum to enable posters and other members of the public to form a view.
It is not good enough to hide behind we don’t know all the facts.
No we don’t, but we know enough!

I disagree with you maddyone. We only know the facts that were made public at the trial. These people need to explain their actions, and to do that the public need to be made aware of their decision making rationale. Without that, there is no point in a public inquiry, surely a major purpose of which is to put preventative measures in place to prevent similar occurrences in future.

Yes Foxygloves. So it seems.

We know what the consultant paediatricians have said.
Are they lying?

maddyone

We know what the consultant paediatricians have said.
Are they lying?

I don’t think they are lying, but I don’t think they have all the information either. They understandably speak from their perspective, and wouldn’t have signed a letter if they hadn’t been convinced, by whatever methods were used, to do so, They are as keen as everybody else who understands exactly how the NHS works to make sure there is a public inquiry. I feel very sorry for the doctor who was apparently the object of her obsession, he must be going through hell.

Casdon

maddyone

We know what the consultant paediatricians have said.
Are they lying?

I don’t think they are lying, but I don’t think they have all the information either. They understandably speak from their perspective, and wouldn’t have signed a letter if they hadn’t been convinced, by whatever methods were used, to do so, They are as keen as everybody else who understands exactly how the NHS works to make sure there is a public inquiry. I feel very sorry for the doctor who was apparently the object of her obsession, he must be going through hell.

I feel very sorry for the doctor who was apparently the object of her obsession, he must be going through hell.

He didn't discourage her attentions.

The consultant paediatricians signed that letter under duress. They were threatened with ‘consequences’ if they didn’t sign. That is no way to obtain a signature. Their signatures were/are worthless. They knew something was wrong, they identified a probable reason, they stated their reasons for their thinking and they did this several times. Finally one of them told these managers that if they didn’t go to the police, he would. Only then did the managers act. This behaviour cannot be defended and these managers need repercussions. The inquiry will eventually tell us that lessons have been learned, just like they did after the Beverley Allitt case.

I hope the wife of the married doctor is giving him hell.
A number of key witnesses have been given anonymity. Why?
Not the parents and children, they deserve it for life, but why the hospital staff?
Why is Susan Gilby, Medical Director following Ian Harvey, then Chief Executive, suing for unfair dismissal? She was told by Ian Harvey that she needed to pursue action against the consultants who raised the alarm about Letby with the General Medical Council. Perhaps that threat is why they they signed the letter,

Just what was going on there?
Those managers have totally destroyed the public's trust with that Hospital.

A law to force offenders to attend their sentencing is to be included in the King’s Speech and laid in Parliament by the end of this year, amid anger over Lucy Letby’s refusal to return to court tomorrow.

www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/lucy-letby-nurse-murder-consultants-sorry-concerns-hospital-b1101587.html