What is left about Labour now?

You assumed I thought nationalisation was a far left policy. I don’t believe that is the case, in time and for some utilities that is right and will ultimately happen I’m sure. Pragmatism about models for different models for utilities and reforming them is the right way forward. Most important is the setting and maintenance of high standards, improvement of services, public accountability and financial probity. Starmer and Reeves both want that. I’m pleased they are pragmatic rather than being over ambitious and promising to deliver things which aren’t achievable in one term of government. They are absolutely right that they shouldn’t over-commit resources until they fully understand the huge financial challenges they will be facing.
I’m sorry, but you are rubbishing the leadership of the Labour Party at every possible opportunity. You aren’t trying to understand their thought processes, rather because they aren’t promising a left wing agenda you have switched off completely to the sense and appropriateness of a pragmatic agenda, despite the fact that the country is in a terrible state at the moment. Fortunately for the country though, other people can see that this is the best way forward to get back to an even keel.

Ilovecheese

Didn't Starmer go to Rupert Murdoch's summer party?

Yes he was associating with him when he was DPP

Grany

Ilovecheese

Didn't Starmer go to Rupert Murdoch's summer party?

Yes he was associating with him when he was DPP

And? It would have been really strange for him not to have been present. There were loads of other politicians there as well, together with loads of celebrities.
dorseteye.com/guess-who-was-spotted-at-rupert-murdochs-summer-party/

Casdon

Grany

Ilovecheese

Didn't Starmer go to Rupert Murdoch's summer party?

Yes he was associating with him when he was DPP

And? It would have been really strange for him not to have been present. There were loads of other politicians there as well, together with loads of celebrities.
dorseteye.com/guess-who-was-spotted-at-rupert-murdochs-summer-party/

This was in 2008

Grany

Ilovecheese

Didn't Starmer go to Rupert Murdoch's summer party?

Yes he was associating with him when he was DPP

Wasn’t he instrumental in convicting Rebekah Brooke’s in the phone hacking scandal?

But so what Grany, Rupert Murdoch has a summer party every year, and invites a huge range of high profile figures? Are you insinuating again?

Grany. How did you feel about Corbyns reluctance to blame Russia for the Salisbury poisonings? Given that you seem to want to rake up all sorts of things against people.

Casdon

You assumed I thought nationalisation was a far left policy. I don’t believe that is the case, in time and for some utilities that is right and will ultimately happen I’m sure. Pragmatism about models for different models for utilities and reforming them is the right way forward. Most important is the setting and maintenance of high standards, improvement of services, public accountability and financial probity. Starmer and Reeves both want that. I’m pleased they are pragmatic rather than being over ambitious and promising to deliver things which aren’t achievable in one term of government. They are absolutely right that they shouldn’t over-commit resources until they fully understand the huge financial challenges they will be facing.
I’m sorry, but you are rubbishing the leadership of the Labour Party at every possible opportunity. You aren’t trying to understand their thought processes, rather because they aren’t promising a left wing agenda you have switched off completely to the sense and appropriateness of a pragmatic agenda, despite the fact that the country is in a terrible state at the moment. Fortunately for the country though, other people can see that this is the best way forward to get back to an even keel.

Suppose you’ve heard all this before just saying

Setting of high standards? Throwing left wing and Jewish people out of the Labour Party those who are anti racist and defend the Palestinian people. Starmer saying if you support Palestine, you are anti Semitic he is weaponising anti semitism

The Forde report which found a hierarchy of racism in Starmer's party with over 100 recommendations not been implemented nor has Starmer even replied to Forde.

Starmer lies and changes his mind whichever way wind is blowing he will be the same in government, call that pragmatic?

Same polices as Tories

70 economists have written to him asks him to reconsider his stance about not taxing the richest, as the poor will continue to suffer.

You wonder why people don't like Starmer don’t want to vote labour

Both Starmer and Streeting said they want to outsource more of the NHS to private companies and urged the government to speed up outsourcing. So there is no question that labour is threatening the NHS.

Casdon

You assumed I thought nationalisation was a far left policy. I don’t believe that is the case, in time and for some utilities that is right and will ultimately happen I’m sure. Pragmatism about models for different models for utilities and reforming them is the right way forward. Most important is the setting and maintenance of high standards, improvement of services, public accountability and financial probity. Starmer and Reeves both want that. I’m pleased they are pragmatic rather than being over ambitious and promising to deliver things which aren’t achievable in one term of government. They are absolutely right that they shouldn’t over-commit resources until they fully understand the huge financial challenges they will be facing.
I’m sorry, but you are rubbishing the leadership of the Labour Party at every possible opportunity. You aren’t trying to understand their thought processes, rather because they aren’t promising a left wing agenda you have switched off completely to the sense and appropriateness of a pragmatic agenda, despite the fact that the country is in a terrible state at the moment. Fortunately for the country though, other people can see that this is the best way forward to get back to an even keel.

I think I understand Starmer's thought processes too well.
He has a long history of deception and secrecy. Including things like joining the Trilateral Commission without notifying either the Labour party or Parliament. declassifieduk.org/keir-starmer-joined-secretive-cia-linked-group-while-serving-in-corbyns-shadow-cabinet/
He has failed to condemn Israel's policies in Palestine, in spite of substantial evidence and confuses anti-Israel stance with anti-semitism.
But that isn't the main problem. The main problem is his insistence on dominating the party, refusing to listen to local people, throwing aside successful LP members , in favour of people who suit LP head office and losing support because of that. And unless he recognises this is a problem he may very well lose seats in the next GE

Just remind me how many seats Corbyn lost at the last election?

Attlee's government was not Far Left. He declined to abolish the public schools having been at Haileybury himself and stopped short of nationalising industries that were not specified in the manifesto. The initiative for the NHS did not originate with Attlee but from Beverage and the other major reform, free secondary education, originated with Butler in the National government. Labour introduced bread rationing after WW2 and maintained an austerity policy for several years.

Grantanow

Attlee's government was not Far Left. He declined to abolish the public schools having been at Haileybury himself and stopped short of nationalising industries that were not specified in the manifesto. The initiative for the NHS did not originate with Attlee but from Beverage and the other major reform, free secondary education, originated with Butler in the National government. Labour introduced bread rationing after WW2 and maintained an austerity policy for several years.

Well, TBH, Grantanow, we've never managed to extract a definition of 'far left' from those who use the term. So one can only guess at how they would define that Attlee government. I just used it in a speculative fashion.

It's difficult to discuss politics without a shared understanding of how terms are used.

Never managed to extract really? You make discussion on GN sound like a visit to a very poor dentist.

Actually, it has about the same ratio of pleasure to pain at times.

What would you most like to see politicians delivering after the next election?

How about reinstating our NHS as the fully public service it was always intended to be?

That’s top of our list here at We Own It.

We Own It has a petition you can sign.

We want to see our NHS reinstated as a fully public service. As it was intended to be when it was set up back in 1948. A service that everyone can be proud of. The best thing this country ever created.

That’s what Keir Starmer must do, will he?

That’s if he is not unseated by then.

I would like to let them get on with planning and tell us nearer to the date of the election what's available - as far as they can know - and what they plan to do, with a promise update when they have been able to have a drains-up and discovered what lies beneath the Tory rhetoric.

If Starmer is "unseated" I would not vote for them or to aid them to power. Not because Starmer is so wonderful, he isn't. But then I'm only looking for a steady hand and a government run professionally. I do not want a party which constantly changes its leadership. We/I have had enough of that.

I want to see a Labour government under Starmer but I think they need to start planning to stay in power for at least ten years to clear up the Tory mess. If Starmer is half as good as Blair there is a fair chance of some improvements.

Grantanow, it’s going to take a long time and money to begin to re-build the mess Labour will face if/when they win the next election.
Grany and others like them don’t want Labour in. They want chaos

MaizieD

Grantanow

Attlee's government was not Far Left. He declined to abolish the public schools having been at Haileybury himself and stopped short of nationalising industries that were not specified in the manifesto. The initiative for the NHS did not originate with Attlee but from Beverage and the other major reform, free secondary education, originated with Butler in the National government. Labour introduced bread rationing after WW2 and maintained an austerity policy for several years.

Well, TBH, Grantanow, we've never managed to extract a definition of 'far left' from those who use the term. So one can only guess at how they would define that Attlee government. I just used it in a speculative fashion.

It's difficult to discuss politics without a shared understanding of how terms are used.

To me the far left are perhaps better described as the radical left. They are idealists and purists, not realists or pragmatists, and believe that the pursuit of a socialist agenda can only be achieved through radical policy making, not through an incremental approach. To achieve the ultimate aim of an equal society they disregard the impact on individuals in pursuit of equality. That’s my personal take on it though, I haven’t used somebody else’s words.
I’d be interested to see how other people interpret this too. Do you want to start by giving us yours?

MayBee70

Just remind me how many seats Corbyn lost at the last election?

Why on earth do you insist on bringing Corbyn into this? The man has gone. He isn't even a Labour MP now, although that could pose problems if he decides to stand as an independent because he has always been regarded as a good constituency MP.
Just because Corbyn didn't win it is no indication that Starmer will. His personal popularity is very low.

Here's the latest summary of the polls showing voter intention. Both the LP and the Tories have gained support in 6 of the polls. www.markpack.org.uk/155623/voting-intention-opinion-poll-scorecard/
Which may be nice for the LP, but you have to wonder who on earth has returned to voting for this shambles of a government, and will people continue to do so?

Casdon

MaizieD

Grantanow

Attlee's government was not Far Left. He declined to abolish the public schools having been at Haileybury himself and stopped short of nationalising industries that were not specified in the manifesto. The initiative for the NHS did not originate with Attlee but from Beverage and the other major reform, free secondary education, originated with Butler in the National government. Labour introduced bread rationing after WW2 and maintained an austerity policy for several years.

Well, TBH, Grantanow, we've never managed to extract a definition of 'far left' from those who use the term. So one can only guess at how they would define that Attlee government. I just used it in a speculative fashion.

It's difficult to discuss politics without a shared understanding of how terms are used.

To me the far left are perhaps better described as the radical left. They are idealists and purists, not realists or pragmatists, and believe that the pursuit of a socialist agenda can only be achieved through radical policy making, not through an incremental approach. To achieve the ultimate aim of an equal society they disregard the impact on individuals in pursuit of equality. That’s my personal take on it though, I haven’t used somebody else’s words.
I’d be interested to see how other people interpret this too. Do you want to start by giving us yours?

"an incremental approach"
Isn't that the trickle-down policy we have seen for the last 13 years? Look how successful that's been
"The rich get rich and the poor get poorer"

So is it far left to think that the bedroom tax should be abolished?
That the third child restriction should be lifted?

That’s an odd source to use Glorianny, Mark Pack is the President of the Liberal Democrats. I prefer the Sky Polltracker, which summarises all the legitimate polls conducted, and maintains a running voting intentions graph. You can download the app from Sky News.

Glorianny

Casdon

MaizieD

Grantanow

Attlee's government was not Far Left. He declined to abolish the public schools having been at Haileybury himself and stopped short of nationalising industries that were not specified in the manifesto. The initiative for the NHS did not originate with Attlee but from Beverage and the other major reform, free secondary education, originated with Butler in the National government. Labour introduced bread rationing after WW2 and maintained an austerity policy for several years.

Well, TBH, Grantanow, we've never managed to extract a definition of 'far left' from those who use the term. So one can only guess at how they would define that Attlee government. I just used it in a speculative fashion.

It's difficult to discuss politics without a shared understanding of how terms are used.

To me the far left are perhaps better described as the radical left. They are idealists and purists, not realists or pragmatists, and believe that the pursuit of a socialist agenda can only be achieved through radical policy making, not through an incremental approach. To achieve the ultimate aim of an equal society they disregard the impact on individuals in pursuit of equality. That’s my personal take on it though, I haven’t used somebody else’s words.
I’d be interested to see how other people interpret this too. Do you want to start by giving us yours?

"an incremental approach"
Isn't that the trickle-down policy we have seen for the last 13 years? Look how successful that's been
"The rich get rich and the poor get poorer"

So is it far left to think that the bedroom tax should be abolished?
That the third child restriction should be lifted?

Rather than attempt to deflect or distract again, or critique somebody else’s views Glorianny why not say what you think the ‘far left’ stand for, as MaizieD asked?

Casdon

That’s an odd source to use Glorianny, Mark Pack is the President of the Liberal Democrats. I prefer the Sky Polltracker, which summarises all the legitimate polls conducted, and maintains a running voting intentions graph. You can download the app from Sky News.

It's a simple summing up of the polls listed with the name of the poll and the results. What's odd about that? I don't want an app thanks.

Casdon

Glorianny

Casdon

MaizieD

Grantanow

Attlee's government was not Far Left. He declined to abolish the public schools having been at Haileybury himself and stopped short of nationalising industries that were not specified in the manifesto. The initiative for the NHS did not originate with Attlee but from Beverage and the other major reform, free secondary education, originated with Butler in the National government. Labour introduced bread rationing after WW2 and maintained an austerity policy for several years.

Well, TBH, Grantanow, we've never managed to extract a definition of 'far left' from those who use the term. So one can only guess at how they would define that Attlee government. I just used it in a speculative fashion.

It's difficult to discuss politics without a shared understanding of how terms are used.

To me the far left are perhaps better described as the radical left. They are idealists and purists, not realists or pragmatists, and believe that the pursuit of a socialist agenda can only be achieved through radical policy making, not through an incremental approach. To achieve the ultimate aim of an equal society they disregard the impact on individuals in pursuit of equality. That’s my personal take on it though, I haven’t used somebody else’s words.
I’d be interested to see how other people interpret this too. Do you want to start by giving us yours?

"an incremental approach"
Isn't that the trickle-down policy we have seen for the last 13 years? Look how successful that's been
"The rich get rich and the poor get poorer"

So is it far left to think that the bedroom tax should be abolished?
That the third child restriction should be lifted?

Rather than attempt to deflect or distract again, or critique somebody else’s views Glorianny why not say what you think the ‘far left’ stand for, as MaizieD asked?

I've posted myviews many times Casdon I don't consider them far left I consider them true to the LP aims. You and others are the people who consider me far left, so explain it to me, because be blowed if I understand.
I've asked many times but I will try again

Is asking that water, energy and trains are publicly owned far left?
Is wanting the bedroom tax abolished far left?
Is wanting privatisation of the NHS stopped far left?
Is wanting the third child legislation abolished far left?
Is wanting proper protection for employees and zero hours contracts abolished far left?
I don't think any of these things are. I think they are basic Labour policies, but I don't think Starmer does.