What is left about Labour now?

You always parry with questions rather than answers Glorianny, so for the sake of us who don’t remember your previous posts, tell us what you think the ‘far left’ stand for? I’ve already explained what it means to me.

Glorianny

MayBee70

Just remind me how many seats Corbyn lost at the last election?

Why on earth do you insist on bringing Corbyn into this? The man has gone. He isn't even a Labour MP now, although that could pose problems if he decides to stand as an independent because he has always been regarded as a good constituency MP.
Just because Corbyn didn't win it is no indication that Starmer will. His personal popularity is very low.

Here's the latest summary of the polls showing voter intention. Both the LP and the Tories have gained support in 6 of the polls. www.markpack.org.uk/155623/voting-intention-opinion-poll-scorecard/
Which may be nice for the LP, but you have to wonder who on earth has returned to voting for this shambles of a government, and will people continue to do so?

We just need to remember what the electorate do when they’re offered a socialist government.

Casdon
Your post @ 10.25 summed it up completely.

MayBee70

Glorianny

MayBee70

Just remind me how many seats Corbyn lost at the last election?

Why on earth do you insist on bringing Corbyn into this? The man has gone. He isn't even a Labour MP now, although that could pose problems if he decides to stand as an independent because he has always been regarded as a good constituency MP.
Just because Corbyn didn't win it is no indication that Starmer will. His personal popularity is very low.

Here's the latest summary of the polls showing voter intention. Both the LP and the Tories have gained support in 6 of the polls. www.markpack.org.uk/155623/voting-intention-opinion-poll-scorecard/
Which may be nice for the LP, but you have to wonder who on earth has returned to voting for this shambles of a government, and will people continue to do so?

We just need to remember what the electorate do when they’re offered a socialist government.

Lots of people voted in 2017/19 and wanted a socialist government It was the idiots who actively worked against a labour victory that lost it gave us tories and are now in Starmer’s ‘opposition’ party.

I don’t think it’s very helpful to look for a definition of ‘far left’ because we all know it’s meant as an insult to those who would never in fact use that term when describing themselves or anyone else.

nightowl

I don’t think it’s very helpful to look for a definition of ‘far left’ because we all know it’s meant as an insult to those who would never in fact use that term when describing themselves or anyone else.

I think it is very helpful myself to understand where people are coming from, I don’t see ‘far left’ as an insult, but as a description of the way people see the political environment they think would work nightowl. Is there a difference in description between ‘far left’ and ‘closet Tories’ which is what those on the left call the more moderate Labour supporters?

Casdon

You always parry with questions rather than answers Glorianny, so for the sake of us who don’t remember your previous posts, tell us what you think the ‘far left’ stand for? I’ve already explained what it means to me.

You've posted a lot of rhetoric about beliefs and ideas but no real policies. I've posted the policies I believe in so why not post yours?
As far as I'm concerned you may call them far left or whatever you want.

I think they’re all meant as insults Casdon and therefore not very helpful. I don’t pretend to be innocent, I have certainly referred to ‘Tory lite’ at times.

I think ‘far left’ equates to socialist. But then we all have a different definition of that as well. It can be used as an insult or a badge of honour, depending where you sit. I just don’t think ‘far left’ would ever be used as a badge of honour. Maybe others disagree.

I don't think the people who use the term "far left" have any real concept of what it means. They just use it to show they regard themselves as superior.

But the way you and another say hard left makes it sound as if we are asking for the moon instead of only basic good sense socialist polices some countries have adopted years ago. What we are asking for is not radical, or hard left whatever that means.
It’s the polices many people want.

• 15 August 2022: Labour promise a 10% digital services tax.

• 26 June 2023: Labour scrap their promise of a 10% digital services tax.

In between, Labour Shadow Ministers accepted £16,000 in freebies from digital services companies.

Next day after receiving freebies dropped digital service tax.

Labour needs to stick to their supposed green deal too.

I didn’t know about the freebies, please name the Shadow Ministers who accepted please Grany

Ok Annie

Information from Open Democracy says Reynolds shadow business secretary was talking about the tax increase right up until he took a £3,377 package for two to attend Glastonbury as a guest of YouTube, which is owned by Google. The day after, reports emerged that he had ditched the plan.

Glorianny

I don't think the people who use the term "far left" have any real concept of what it means. They just use it to show they regard themselves as superior.

Yes, I’d agree that that statement perfectly sums up your view Glorianny.

Then why use the term far left hard left of those who only want sensible polices nationalisation and taxing the richest, you call yourself moderate. You could call us socialists instead as Mick Linch said Starmer should say socialists he never says it.

Is this the Mick Lynch who advised people to vote for Brexit?

Damn. I spent ages composing a post about what I considered to be 'extreme' or 'hard' left and accidently deleted it!

So, very briefly, I associate hard or extreme left with the practice of the ideology devised by communist philosophers/thinkers. Many of the actual principles were absolutely fine, but they took no account of individuals and the leaders of the revolutions which enabled them had very little real idea of how to implement putting them into practice. They ended up resorting to the methods of dictators every where with severe repression of anyone who deviated from the beliefs they imposed on the population. Violent, cruel and inhumane repression.

I don't actually believe that most left wingers in the UK would actually want a revolution, nor would they want non consensual imposition of their beliefs. So I don't see them as a danger or anything to be feared.

I do, however, feel, like Casdon, that change is better implemented incrementally.

Though what seems like a small change to some people can seem like a Revolution to others...

I would observe that revolutions are usually achieved by charismatic demagogues stirring up a large part of the populace. Once they've succeeded in overthrowing the previous regime they really don't have much of a plan for what is to happen next, and discover that it's more difficult to get 'the people' to co-operate when they're not in a state of high emotion whipped up by their demagogic rhetoric. That's when the repression begins...

I have to say that this cycle bears a strong resemblance to our very own Brexit revolution...

I think left wing policies are what make an ideal, caring society but then you have to move to the right till it gets to the point where it’s acceptable enough for the majority of people to vote for it. But we need people from the left of the party to be the Jiminy Crickets of the political world.

but then you have to move to the right till it gets to the point where it’s acceptable enough for the majority of people to vote for it.

The real irony, I think, MayBee, is that when polled, the majority of people have views which reflect the 'left' rather than the 'right'. But they still vote for the right..

There's clearly something else that stops them voting for the left.

Grany

Then why use the term far left hard left of those who only want sensible polices nationalisation and taxing the richest, you call yourself moderate. You could call us socialists instead as Mick Linch said Starmer should say socialists he never says it.

Starmer has called himself a socialist Grany, but not, I think, in the last year or so. Howver, it is one of the doubts I have about voting to enable Labour. That and the extremists on the far left of the party, who lean towards authouritarianism.

Blair called himself a democratic socialist. I have to admit a little bit of democracy goes a long way in my book.

MayBee70

I think left wing policies are what make an ideal, caring society but then you have to move to the right till it gets to the point where it’s acceptable enough for the majority of people to vote for it. But we need people from the left of the party to be the Jiminy Crickets of the political world.

Noooo. Obviously, if you are a Labour Party member, you get to chose. But the nearer you get to no mixed economy and authoritarianism the less the centre will support you.

^ But the nearer you get to no mixed economy and authoritarianism the less the centre will support you.^

Which makes it so very weird that people vote for the right. Do they actually like authoritarianism and no mixed economy?

Labour spending millions court case in 2024 during coming election against Labour leakers report about those staffers who tried to loose election including with their disgusting WhatsApp messages and their disappointment when Labour almost won in 2017 saying this goes against all that I've been working towards these two years. I think it was just that those people who were plotting against a Corbyn win came to light Now people saw that their membership money was wasted on the paid staffers and their vile behaviour should have be brought out into the open for all to see.

Yes Labour nearly won in 2017 the question is would Corbyn have still respected the referendum vote, in any case they were a long way from a working majority.

Katie59

Yes Labour nearly won in 2017 the question is would Corbyn have still respected the referendum vote, in any case they were a long way from a working majority.

Well, Corbyn would certainly have 'respected the vote', he was anti EU.

The ‘nearly won’ is a misnomer though, Labour lost by 55 seats in 2017.