We’re rejoining the Horizon programme….

It’s great that now we’re out we can pick & choose the good bits about the EU that we want to be a part of. ( and there are some )

Win win!

Kandinsky

It’s great that now we’re out we can pick & choose the good bits about the EU that we want to be a part of. ( and there are some )

Win win!

We'll still have to conform to any regulations they might impose, without any say in their making.

It's second best.

Kandinsky

It’s great that now we’re out we can pick & choose the good bits about the EU that we want to be a part of. ( and there are some )

Win win!

Not at all. Cake and eat option has never been, and never will be, acceptable to EU, and quite rightly.

Picking bits will only happen if it suits them too, and at a great cost and only on 'second' level.

A lot of very Typical answeres from Europhiles and Remoaners that ignore the true FACTS.

The UK had agreed prior to leaving the E.U. participation in the Horizon project. But when we left the E.U. acted like a Spoilt child and said YOU are not playing with my toys. We said - Fine We will keep our money which upset them.

We then said - WE had an agrement and we will see you in Court. Guess who has won!!!

Now everyone appreciates that making deals with the E.U. is not straitforward as the E.U. is not trustworthy.

My daughter benefitted from Erasmus and had a great experience studying abroad. Hope this is brought back as it is a wonderful opportunity for all students, not just the wealthy.

I am quite certain that closer working in many areas will happen within a very short time.

It doesn’t matter why or how it occurs but it is such good news for our poor beleaguered country.

Brexit is a complete disaster and we shall spend years unpicking it. Rejoining Horizon is a small but important step. Very good for UK science. Scientists are not simply middle class - plenty of working class ones by origin as I was. The Tory talk about having our own global science scheme was the usual 'Global Britain' twaddle peddled by Leaver politicians and others. Hopefully some bigwig politician will eventually summon the courage to take us back in to the EU though we won't achieve the same advantageous terms secured by the late Mrs Thatcher: she must be turning in her grave as a former chemist and proponent of the single market.

Well, as a counter balance to all the EU enthusiasm on here, I quite liked this editorial from today’s Telegraph. I have C&P it as it’s behind a paywall.

“The UK is not a mere supplicant of the EU:

The saga of Britain’s involvement with the Horizon science and research programme is a case study in EU spite. When the UK voted for Brexit, British leaders made it clear that they were not seeking total isolation from Europe, particularly on issues of mutual advantage. If anything, the hope was that national independence could be the foundation for much friendlier ties. The ground could be cleared for an uncomplicated focus on co-operation in areas in which both sides stood to gain.

That was without reckoning with the petulance of Brussels and its determination to punish Britain, even at a cost to itself. If EU politicians had been behaving rationally, they would have jumped at the chance of continued UK involvement in Horizon, a pan-European programme that includes several non-EU countries. The bloc contains few universities of any note. It is a research laggard, particularly when compared with the likes of the United States.

This was, in other words, a clear example of an area in which the EU most likely needed the UK more than the UK needed the EU. But in an act of self-harm that brought politics into science, it effectively blocked the UK from taking part.

Now a deal has been reached between the Government and the European Commission that will let Britain associate with Horizon on a bespoke basis. But instead of putting the new agreement in its correct context – a recognition by the EU that it was in danger of becoming a research backwater – the likes of the BBC chose to report it almost as a major EU concession. This follows a pattern. Too often the UK is portrayed as a supplicant that faces penury unless it is allowed to pick scraps off the EU table. Convergence is almost always deemed to be self-evidently sensible.

The details of the Horizon deal of course need to be interrogated to see whether it represents value for money for British taxpayers. Some Brexiteers are frustrated that alternatives were not pursued instead. They fear, in part, that this will be just the start of a process that could result in the UK eventually rejoining the EU.

To address their concerns, the Government needs to be much clearer about what it is getting out of its “reset” of relations with the EU following the signing of the Windsor Framework. Warmer ties should not be an end in themselves. Action cannot be confused with progress, especially with a partner as unreliable as the EU.”

ug well that is certainly one point of view😄, but I have read a very different one, and it pointed to the paltry amount Sunak gave to the Pioneer programme, which never got off the ground, and talking to my scientist daughter, I think her opinion would be very different.

Ah, it’s always good to share dissenting POV on these threads though isn’t it Whitewave? It adds a certain counter balance to the populist narrative on here! “EU is good, Ra Ra Ra!”
😊

I think the Telegraph is attempting to rewrite history. As are most of the Brexit supporting media.

The dwindling band of Brexiters are welcome to hang on to their fantasies, but I think that much of the population is unimpressed.

We are not having a discussion about EU being good, or not. But about the benefits of the Horizon programme. And the fact that pick and choose will only happen if beneficial to the EU, and at a cost and limited access unless we follow all rules.

Why shouldn’t we follow all the rules? We participated in making them.

The hit to musicians and artists needs addressing too - the EU did offer some sort of deal on their ability to tour EU countries but the good offices of the Johnson government didn’t want to be beholden to anything European - that was a good example of spite and cutting of the nose.

i do wish there was a window beside each comment that we could click up or down as we agreed / didnt agree

furzeacre579

i do wish there was a window beside each comment that we could click up or down as we agreed / didnt agree

I know what you mean, but it would wreck the chances of any debate. Also, there would be lurkers who offer nothing anyway posting '😂' emojis just to passive aggressively ridicule the posts of those who'd bothered to give an opinion. That happens on FB all the time on 'open' conversations, and I have no doubt that it would happen here too.

I will never forget someone posting to say that they were a lurker but regularly reported posts they thought were 'not in the spirit of GN'! I have little patience with freeloaders at the best of times, but that took the biscuit. It is exactly the sort of thing that would happen if we had that facility on here, but worse, people would take it to heart.

I will never forget someone posting to say that they were a lurker but regularly reported posts they thought were 'not in the spirit of GN'! I have little patience with freeloaders at the best of times, but that took the biscuit

I remember that post too Doodledog 😡
It quite surprised me at the time!

The sheer brass neck of it surprised me as much as anything, Urmstongran!

Exactly so Doodledog!

MayBee70

Doodledog

I sincerely hope so.

Erasmus was available to undergrads too, and I taught many lovely students from all over Europe as a result. UK students could apply too, although they tended not to have the language skills to take advantage. Some universities (eg ones in Cyprus) teach in English, however, so they could widen their horizons by going there.

For those not familiar with the Erasmus scheme, it allows students to take a semester (usually half an academic year) in another European university and get the credits towards their home degree.

Braverman took part in the Erasmus scheme I believe….

Braverman studied French (I think).

My daughter spent a semester as an Erasmus student in Dublin, where she studied Irish history from an Irish perspective, which she found enlightening. She also made friends with young people all over Europe and is still in contact with a number of them after a decade.

There were opportunities for students without foreign language skills. I know a young man who was studying physics, went to Grenoble as an Erasmus student, met his future French wife ... and the rest is history. Unfortunately, the UK lost a very talented physicist.

Urmstongran Who actually wrote that article in the Telegraph? Sorry, but some of it absolute nonsense.

Admittedly, the EU doesn't have an institution with the same reputation as Oxford or Cambridge, but it has some faculties which knock spots off anywhere in the UK. Not only that, but very talented researchers from the EU have found it more difficult to come to the UK, so British universities have lost out on them. Not belonging to Horizon has meant that British universities couldn't take the lead in prestigious international projects.

A friend’s son and my DD both teach in universities in Europe. Different countries. Both teach in English.
British children need to learn other language skills but there is such a lot of pressure on children to learn what they have to learn. I do not know what the answer to that is.

Trurider1

A lot of very Typical answeres from Europhiles and Remoaners that ignore the true FACTS.

The UK had agreed prior to leaving the E.U. participation in the Horizon project. But when we left the E.U. acted like a Spoilt child and said YOU are not playing with my toys. We said - Fine We will keep our money which upset them.

We then said - WE had an agrement and we will see you in Court. Guess who has won!!!

Now everyone appreciates that making deals with the E.U. is not straitforward as the E.U. is not trustworthy.

Which fairy tale book have you been reading?

This is nonsense.

Is this another thin edge of the wedge, or way of reversing the Brexit vote to advantage of the of the non-thinking anti-Brexiteers. I could say a lot more but I am fed up with the continual whinging of the mindless minority.

usuallyright

Is this another thin edge of the wedge, or way of reversing the Brexit vote to advantage of the of the non-thinking anti-Brexiteers. I could say a lot more but I am fed up with the continual whinging of the mindless minority.

The non-thinking minority? Aha, you presumably mean those who still think that Brexit was a great idea!