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Hamas has attacked Israel

(1001 Posts)
GrannyGravy13 Sat 07-Oct-23 13:28:22

It’s being reported that Hamas has launched 400 plus rockets into Israel along with its men shooting Israeli civilians in the streets.

Israel has retaliated with extreme force, are we heading for yet another all out war in the Middle East?

I was scrolling X (Twitter) and found the most appalling video posted by Hamas showing a dead Israeli women, stripped naked and being driven around whilst her body is being abused.

I do not think I can ever remove those images from my brain, yet again women being abused/defiled by men as an act of war.

Katie59 Wed 11-Oct-23 07:32:07

growstuff

merlotgran

Getting back to the present day…Can anyone tell me why Egypt has a closed border with Gaza? Surely a fellow Muslim country should be offering to help those desperate people trying to flee and have no way out?

Why? Would the UK help out the citizens of another country just because they're Christian?

We do and we have, most recently Ukraine, many others from Eastern Europe since WW2.

The fact is that Egypt don’t want Palestinians, they have enough problem with their own extremists, the government gets many $billions of aid every year from the US to prop up the government.

Shelmiss Wed 11-Oct-23 07:36:04

My sister is a TA here in Manchester. Yesterday she had to show her pupils where and how to hide in the event of an attack on the school. They are age 5/6. Many of the pupils didn’t show up as their parents were understandably too afraid to send them.

Yesterday I bought and gave items to a local charity which requested immediate help in sending supplies for the soldiers in Israel.

Sometimes on this site I’m too scared (if that’s the correct word) to defend my fellows Jews on this site. But not now.

I stand with Israel 🇮🇱

maddyone Wed 11-Oct-23 07:39:20

Thank you for your informative post Candelle and your voice of truth.
But there are none so blind as those who will not see.
There is word to describe hatred of the Jewish people.
A word that some don’t want to acknowledge.

And yes, we did open our doors to Christian people in need.
Remind me, how many Ukrainians did we take in?

Whitewavemark2 Wed 11-Oct-23 07:42:52

Shelmiss

My sister is a TA here in Manchester. Yesterday she had to show her pupils where and how to hide in the event of an attack on the school. They are age 5/6. Many of the pupils didn’t show up as their parents were understandably too afraid to send them.

Yesterday I bought and gave items to a local charity which requested immediate help in sending supplies for the soldiers in Israel.

Sometimes on this site I’m too scared (if that’s the correct word) to defend my fellows Jews on this site. But not now.

I stand with Israel 🇮🇱

Blimey shelmiss never be scared!! Face the critics down - you have a long and proud history of survival in face of all the odds.

Stand strong.

Shelmiss Wed 11-Oct-23 07:44:43

Thank you WWM2

maddyone Wed 11-Oct-23 07:46:19

I’m off to London today with my daughter and her three children who are visiting from New Zealand. This trip has been planned for a while. Children’s dinosaur afternoon tea, Tower of London tickets, Lion King tickets. I’m hoping and praying we won’t run into any demonstrations in London because one of the children can become extremely anxious in crowds. I think I would be very anxious too. There shouldn’t need to be demonstrations on the street outside number 10 or the Israeli embassy as I have seen, possibly causing terror to young children. I cross my fingers and hope we’ll avoid anything like that.

But I’m aware my worries are nothing compared to the terror in Israel and Palestine today.

maddyone Wed 11-Oct-23 07:47:11

Shelmissflowers

maddyone Wed 11-Oct-23 07:47:29

I stand with Israel too.

Sparklefizz Wed 11-Oct-23 07:58:49

Candelle Thank you for such an informative post. I stand with Israel.

Sago Wed 11-Oct-23 08:53:03

Shelmiss what a frightening time, I have found many of the reports too harrowing to watch, the attack was vicious and cowardly.
I too stand with Isreal.

Iam64 Wed 11-Oct-23 08:53:35

Candelle, more thanks from me for your post. I too stand with Israel.
I hope my references to the history of anti semitism and oppression of Jewish people didn’t appear to be ‘cosily’ discussing history. I have never understood the ‘left’s unquestioning support for Hamas / Palestine and its aggression/ anti semitism towards Jewish people, especially those living in Israel.

Katie59 Wed 11-Oct-23 08:57:39

The media always refer to Gaza as a refugee camp it’s not sustainable on this own, any other refugee camp would have been depopulated decades ago. The population could be resettled in other Arab countries or even the West Bank but nobody wants them, is there no humanity in the Arab world?.

Franbern Wed 11-Oct-23 09:11:47

How can anyone 'stand;' with a country that is committing an outright War Crime in cutting of food, electricity and water, to thousands of people.???

Thank Goodness, I do not equate my being Jewish with having anything whatsoever to do with the fascist Israeili government

GrannyGravy13 Wed 11-Oct-23 09:19:16

Franbern

How can anyone 'stand;' with a country that is committing an outright War Crime in cutting of food, electricity and water, to thousands of people.???

Thank Goodness, I do not equate my being Jewish with having anything whatsoever to do with the fascist Israeili government

How can you stand with a Country governed by terrorists who have committed the most heinous atrocities, murdered babies, children, raped women of all ages, and are now holding hundreds as a human shield.

The Israeli Army are using a system called knock and drop for the bombing offences in Gaza, for those who do not know what this is it is where a small non lethal but loud detonator is dropped on/by the target giving civilians approximately twenty minutes to evacuate before they send the deadly missile/bomb.

Hamas didn’t afford Israeli citizens the same opportunity to live.

pascal30 Wed 11-Oct-23 09:24:15

and that's the truly heartbreaking aspect of this war, that most jewish people and palestinians just want to live in harmony and help each other, and there have been countless examples of that over the years.. it's the extremists on both sides who wish to annihilate each other..

growstuff Wed 11-Oct-23 09:24:23

Katie59

growstuff

merlotgran

Getting back to the present day…Can anyone tell me why Egypt has a closed border with Gaza? Surely a fellow Muslim country should be offering to help those desperate people trying to flee and have no way out?

Why? Would the UK help out the citizens of another country just because they're Christian?

We do and we have, most recently Ukraine, many others from Eastern Europe since WW2.

The fact is that Egypt don’t want Palestinians, they have enough problem with their own extremists, the government gets many $billions of aid every year from the US to prop up the government.

We don't take them just because they're Christian. People seem to lump together all Arab states as though they're some kind of united force. Do people have any idea what's happening in Yemen or Sudan and some parts of Syria? Or have any idea how many displaced people are already in camps in Arab countries?

merlotgran Wed 11-Oct-23 09:32:11

People seem to lump together all Arab states as though they're some kind of united force.

When it comes to the destruction of Israel most of them are.

TerriBull Wed 11-Oct-23 09:37:21

Bagpuss there really are no words, just heartfelt sympathy to your family and those who have had this savagery inflicted on them flowers truly, truly shocking. I'm not sure how Hamas can garner any sympathy after such a horrific massacre that involved the slaughter of babies, but they do! they seem to have masses of supporters, as Candelle's post stated a robust PR machine. Hamas of course are not representative of all Palestinian people, they are a terrorist organisation in thrall to their paymasters, Iran, and who in their right mind would want to live under that regime, I'm sure most ordinary Palestinian citizens don't. Only the other day a young 16 year old girl was pulled off a train in Iran and savagely beaten by modesty police shock now in hospital with possible brain damage, her crime, she didn't have a wretched piece of cloth covering her head and modesty police well that tells us everything about that country's attitude to women. I do wonder if Iran has orchestrated this as some sort of proxy war as Israel's relationship with Saudi has strengthened of late.

Iran is of course gloating as many others are in the aftermath of this atrocious attack. There are plenty of westerners who also spit out all manner of vitriol to our Jewish fellow citizens, read David Baddiel's book "Jews Don't Count" to be a Jew makes one 100% culpable for whatever extreme behaviour the Israeli government are meting out. Are any other group of people continually lampooned as a cabal of rich bankers who control the world? There is this subliminal hatred of the Jewish people by a minority. I would add it was heartening to hear David Lammy's condemnation speech of Hamas at the Labour Party conference the other day.

I remember many years ago working for a Jewish firm when I was all of 18 and finding them at times tunnel visioned in their defence of Israel and me being rather naive arguing the case for the Palestinians and boy did they fall on me like a pack of wolves, but that was back in the seventies. In retrospect I imagine their experiences of family members who survived or didn't survive the holocaust was still at the fore. That hit home to me when I visited Israel in the early eighties and whilst having lunch on the beach, we noticed a group of older people sitting at table nearby where their tattooed numbers were clearly visible. I think those feelings of never feeling safe and "will we have to move on again" from wherever home maybe, is always at the fore or the Jewish psyche, years and years of interminable persecution and the desire for a homeland is hard wired into the soul. I recently discovered through DNA testing that my maternal grandfather was half Jewish and that side of the family emanated from Alsace which has made me wonder what happened to any that remained there during the terrible years of the German occupation.

It's so hard to read about the horror of the latest situation particularly when babies and children are involved, I feel exactly the same whether the victims are Jewish or Palestinian they just innocent pawns who never deserve any of this.

I think Whitewave's history timeline of how the state of Israel came about is relevant, I think we all need to know there are two sides to any conflict such as this. I have a book on the Jewish Diaspora somewhere I'll have to find it. Nevertheless I find the overt taking to the streets and gloating that Hamas supporters display abhorrent, sickening. I witnessed the intimidation of some flag wavers down in Bournemouth a couple of years ago trying to bait some orthodox Jews on the Sabbath when they are quite visible going to and from synagogue, it did make me wonder at the time "where are the police" these are just peaceful people observing their religious rituals and they deserve protection like anyone else, especially given their history.

Katie59 Wed 11-Oct-23 09:48:47

Growstuff

Do people have any idea what's happening in Yemen or Sudan and some parts of Syria? Or have any idea how many displaced people are already in camps in Arab countries?

We hear that Hamas is armed by Iran, is Iran offering safe refuge to the Palestinians?. Would they want to go and live in Iran in any case.
Arabs states are certainly not united in fact they hate each other almost as much as the Israelis. Yemen is Muslims fighting Muslims, Sudan the same a a power struggle between factions of Islam.

In both cases far worse that Palestine is currently

growstuff Wed 11-Oct-23 10:24:45

If I were a Palestinian, I most certainly wouldn't want to live in Iran. Iran isn't even an Arab country and people speak a different language for a start.

growstuff Wed 11-Oct-23 10:25:30

merlotgran

^People seem to lump together all Arab states as though they're some kind of united force.^

When it comes to the destruction of Israel most of them are.

No, they're not.

paddyann54 Wed 11-Oct-23 10:32:24

Well said Franbern I do not support the actions of Hamas in any way ,I also do not support the treatment of the Palestinian people since the inception of the Israeli state .Its has been decades of abuse ,largely ignored by the world .I march with Jews in a Solidarity for Palestinian group .I am not anti semitic I am ANTI the Israeli STATE goverment with appears to get more fascist year on year .There are Palestinian schools ,hospitals bombed often there are Palestinian youths shot dead on the streets atrocities committed against old people and young mothers .It gets NO COVERAGE form the media .These people are expected to sit down and shut up and accept the vile treatment with no recourse to justice .
If we complain we're called anti semitic ...yes even the jews in the group ...would we accept any other nation herding millions into a small space,stealing land and destroying lives in this way?
I repeat I AM NOT ANTI SEMITIC ,i DO NOT AGREE WITH HAMAS' ACTIONS .I AM pro Palestinian and believe they deserve help and support not people applauding Israeli government actions in cutting off their utilities ...again

Katie59 Wed 11-Oct-23 10:40:46

growstuff

If I were a Palestinian, I most certainly wouldn't want to live in Iran. Iran isn't even an Arab country and people speak a different language for a start.

No but you know perfectly well it is a Muslim country and it is funding aggressive expansion of Islam in many parts. Your argument is nonsense because ask a Palestinian if they would like to come to Europe they would say yes please.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 11-Oct-23 10:42:47

paddyann54

Well said Franbern I do not support the actions of Hamas in any way ,I also do not support the treatment of the Palestinian people since the inception of the Israeli state .Its has been decades of abuse ,largely ignored by the world .I march with Jews in a Solidarity for Palestinian group .I am not anti semitic I am ANTI the Israeli STATE goverment with appears to get more fascist year on year .There are Palestinian schools ,hospitals bombed often there are Palestinian youths shot dead on the streets atrocities committed against old people and young mothers .It gets NO COVERAGE form the media .These people are expected to sit down and shut up and accept the vile treatment with no recourse to justice .
If we complain we're called anti semitic ...yes even the jews in the group ...would we accept any other nation herding millions into a small space,stealing land and destroying lives in this way?
I repeat I AM NOT ANTI SEMITIC ,i DO NOT AGREE WITH HAMAS' ACTIONS .I AM pro Palestinian and believe they deserve help and support not people applauding Israeli government actions in cutting off their utilities ...again

I am empathetic to the civilian population of Israel and Palestine.

Are you suggesting that Israel should turn a blind eye to the heinous atrocities of the last five days?

Grany Wed 11-Oct-23 10:44:10

There are atrocities on both sides. Israeli soldiers say they have not seen any beheading of innocents.

Matt Kenard
UK Foreign Secretary backing clear violations of Geneva Convention here. Yes:war crimes.

If we had a functioning media this would be front-page news. If we had a functioning political system, he would have to resign.

We have neither.
James Clevely refuses to condemn Israel cutting off water, power and food to the people of Gaza.

A reminder that collective punishment is a war crime. There are one million children living in Gaza. Our government supports starving them.

Collective punishment is not only contrary to international law it is inhumane and illogical. How will this de escalate the violence rather than radicalize many more? It is madness.

Peaceful solutions hound be sought for both sides Palestine and Israel

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