Hamas has attacked Israel

Sparklefizz

Jews in the UK were worried when it looked as if Corbyn might be voted in. Now they are worried about living here again. I'm appalled that my country is turning into a frightening place for them and that children are being told not to wear their identifying school uniforms. Totally shocking!

Is there any evidence that they were in danger of being attacked or is it just fear of being attacked.

I don't think there was any immediate threat Jackiest, in fact the school's letter to parents states nothing specific had been reported on this occasion. It was the Rabbi's decision to close.

We must protect children at all costs, but not by encouraging them to constantly feel that they are the subjects of hatred due to their religion or ethnicity. It isn't healthy. On the other hand, it must be terrifying to live in constant fear, waiting for things to erupt.

These latest TV images of people fleeing Gaza City on foot with chuldren and with just a few carrier bags of possessions is absolutley heartbreaking.. they might survive the bombing but how one earth are they going to survive for more than a few days out in the open with no food, water or bedding, Some of the children didn't even have jackets..

We must protect children at all costs, but not by encouraging them to constantly feel that they are the subjects of hatred due to their religion or ethnicity

But they are.

Have you watched the crowds around the world chanting from the river to the sea, etc.?

If you have listened and seen this, then so will the children.

Sadly, attitudes are so entrenched that many people are partisan.

Humza Yousaf was on TV this evening, his parents-in-law were visiting and are trapped in Gaza, he is desperately worried about them.

I can feel for the ordinary people, especially the women and children of both sides of the border caught up in these horrors.

It is sad that so many cannot and apportion blame to those who have no part in this.

The latest The Rest is Politics is very good: an interview with Israeli historian Yuval Noah Harari. Very enlightening. I do depend greatly on TRIP’s to get things in perspective these days.

Well I’ve just caught up with this thread as I was away for a couple of days.
All I can say is that I’m appalled by the clear antisemitism here, right on this thread. And denying it won’t make it not so, it is, and it stands, clear antisemitism for all to read and see.
Galaxy I’ve seen nothing of yours that was remotely antisemitic, your comments have been balanced. I don’t understand why you’ve had posts deleted.

Urmstongran

“Gaza is out of control because in 2005 the Israelis pulled out ­altogether — sometimes dragging Jewish settlers out by the hair. The place was left to the Palestinians.

What happened? Did they seize their moment, and govern ­sensibly, taking advantage of the billions in aid the US and the EU were ready to disgorge?

On the contrary — the Gaza Strip became a launching pad for rocket attacks on Israel; an ­appalling advertisement for what two states could mean.

It is true that in the past few decades the expansion of Israeli settlements in the West Bank has made a negotiated settlement more difficult; but it could have been done.”

Source Boris Johnson writing in the Daily Mail.

What a fool Johnson is.

There will be no peace until all the citizens of that area- regardless of faiths are fully fledged citizens of a state, whether that is one or two states.

The 2 party state originally offered was never accepted by the Arabs because they owned 2/3rds of the land, and yet were only offered 1/3rd as their state. They were then forcibly evacuated or fled from their land that fell into Israeli territory in 1948. As a result the Arabs have never recognised the 2 state solution, although they have come close to it at times.

So addressing Johnson’s foolish remarks, Israeli settlements had been gradually grabbing land from Gaza quite illegally and in 2005 Israeli withdrawal from illegal settlements after pressure from in particular the USA.. The UN however, still consider Gaza to be under Israeli control.

“Following the withdrawal, Israel continues to maintain direct control over Gaza's air and maritime space, six of Gaza's seven land crossings, maintains a no-go buffer zone within the territory, controls the Palestinian population registry, and Gaza remains dependent on Israel for its water, electricity, telecommunications, and other utilities.”

How on earth can you call that an independent sovereign state?

I have no sympathy whatsoever with Hamas, but you have to get real here and understand the issues underlying the whole damned mess.

I think without question, given the Israeli control over Gaza and using it as a source of cheap labour, there is no question that they are operating an apartheid state.

I know moderate Israelis of which they are probably the majority what grab at a state solution with both hands, recognising that it is the only way forward. They may in the end be a one state or 2 party state but I can’t see another way forward.

Whitewave It's not true that the two state solution was totally rejected by "the Arabs". Fatah was willing to negotiate, but Hamas wasn't. The two groups hate each other.

It is thought by some within Israel that Netanyahu has been trying to drive a further wedge between Fatah and Hamas because he doesn't want a two state solution either. It is claimed that he turned a blind eye to money being given in aid to Hamas because he wanted to use them against Fatah in the West Bank, where he has been forcibly removing people from their homes to relocate settlers.

If that's the case, the plan has backfired and resulted in Hamas' being strong enough to stage an attack on Israel.

I can't believe that Johnson was paid thousands of pounds for writing that article in the Daily Mail. It totally ignores history. If there is not to be a two state solution, the only alternative is the obliteration of Palestine.

If you have listened and seen this, (anti Jewish chanting), then so will the children.
Sadly, this is undoubtedly true in many cases Namsnanny. And even more horrifying is the thought that they will have heard about the awful plight of babies and children in Israel too. Their young minds will be damaged for life.
What I was questioning was the wisdom of closing schools when NO specific threats had been received. It could be viewed as the grown ups possessing a kind of victim mentality, which they are instilling in their children, and this then gets fed down the generations.
Jewish schools are already heavily protected with their own security, and I believe Rishi has announced an extra £3 milllion for this too.

How can anyone not be upset and horrified at the stream of people leaving their homes in Gaza, with few possessions and nowhere to go.These people are ordinary families, like the Jewish families who suffered such atrocities, not terrorists. I don’t know as much about this conflict between two peoples as a lot do but I have felt for a long time that Palestinians we’re treated unfairly, being pushed further out of their place of birth by Israel. Very poor neighbours as Israel needs more and more room. All this in the name of religion , I don’t think so. It’s about power and control and if you push people further and further eventually people will break. How would we feel if we were treated in that way? The leaders of these two nations need to sit down and really talk and see the others point of view, recognise each others feelings, the needs of their people. Violence just means more violence and heartbreak, no one wins. Is it right that people with more money, education and weaponry etc control a poor neighbour? See each other as people, all religions teach the same principle, love your neighbour as yourself. I am neither Jew or Muslin, I don’t favour any side just humanity.

growstuff yes you are right and I know that ( in my sentence - they have come close to it at times), -(particularly with Clinton I think) but it has never been fully accepted, that was what I am saying.

It is heartening to see so many posts stating that violence can never be the answer.

It is being reported that white phosphorous is being used.

Oh thanks for that maddy I requested myself that one of my posts was deleted as it quoted someones anti semitism and I decided that I didnt want to cause further hurt by repeating it.

I read that moderate Israelis are blaming Netanyahu for the Hamas incursion, and are demanding he resign.

I listened to Trip in the middle of the night as I couldn't sleep. I also recommend it, the Israeli says so much that resonates with posters on here (some of whom who have been called Anti semitic!). He is very critical of Netanyahu and his leadership of Israel, he is also very clear about Hamas and why this current military incursion into Gaza plays directly into the hands of Hamas.

It is on my to do list - in fact I think to do now!

Israel has announced two safe humanitarian corridors, main roads to the South of Gaza.

They are also claiming that they have killed one of the Hamas leaders, he was responsible for the air attacks on Israel.

I will continue to pray for all of the innocent civilians in Gaza and Israel.

Oops sorry the humanitarian corridors are for 6 hours, they have been open since 8am our time.

I think the message I take away from that podcast is

Look to the politicians.

This populist age which rejects the world order since 2014 has been an age of violence, division and conflict. And it is getting worse.

Israel is being led by a corrupt populist

Gaza being led by a fanatical religious military.

Both countries are so badly served.

The international community must step up.. We must reject the false populist message, and re-establish the Liberal World Order.

Whitewavemark2

I read that moderate Israelis are blaming Netanyahu for the Hamas incursion, and are demanding he resign.

First, thank you for your post at 01.01.16 - exactly what I wanted to point out, but you did it so much better.

As for the above- yes- this is exactly what our friends from Israel are saying. They actually believe that Netanyahu had all the necessary intelligence and knew this would happen- and just let it happen- as it would then give him the excuse for the 'Final Solution' - destroy and exterminate the Palestinians of Gaza. It seems so far fetched and so beyond belief that it could be true- and yet- this is exactly what they are saying.

Whitewavemark2

It is being reported that white phosphorous is being used.

This was stated as ´”unequivocally untrue” yesterday.

Hamas’s propaganda machine is on full throttle at present. Look at some of the film of Palestinians. Pay attention to some of the footage and you will see some acting for the cameras. They are told to do this by Hamas.

That being said, I don’t deny there is a humanitarian crisis developing and I have huge sympathy for those people fleeing their homes but they have been given warning which is more than the victims of last Saturday’s massacre received. I don’t think the Israeli government should have reacted the way they have as I fear this is what Hamas and probably Iran (maybe Russia too) expected.

As per usual it’s civilians just trying to get on with life that will suffer.

tickingbird that is good to know as it really is horrendous. We have to be careful about what we see and read I think.

I've also listened to Trip podcast, Yuval Noah Harari is a true humanitarian, it's a great pity we don't seem to have many like him in politics. The world would certainly be a better place if we did. We definitely need more world leaders to follow Biden's lead. It is possible to fully support Israel's right to defend herself whilst also reminding Israel's govt that they must follow the law. I can't remember the actual words that Harari used but something like "victims can also be perpetrators" and " Democratic states must maintain decent standards of behaviour in the face of threat or we are no better than they are". His assessment of why Hamas was motivated to take the action they did is also very illuminating and chilling but it clarifies for me why the Israeli incursion into Gaza will be completely counter productive.