Hamas has attacked Israel

Whitewavemark2

tickingbird that is good to know as it really is horrendous. We have to be careful about what we see and read I think.

I am staying with BBC and SKY News/websites they report what has been confirmed and when in doubt make a point of saying that they are seeking further confirmation.

The videos and photos on social media are just too graphic and upsetting. I appreciate that the world needs to know, but I am actively avoiding them and scrolling past.

Good to read many posts not taking sides realising both people Israeli and Palistinians have suffered. Who of our politicians are calling for peace talks negotiation. The flying of the Israeli flag an apartheid state on Downing Street shows what side Britain supports they do sell arms to Israel, also media. Then Starmer won't call for restraint or to stop the siege of Gaza also Emily Thornbury supports Israel and the view its all Hamas fault no mention of Palestine the suffering of its people. Is that the way its always going to be in Britain. There is one politician calling for peace Corbyn to end the occupation and the siege but then according to some he would have been the worst PM. We need world leaders to get together to work together for peace.

foxie48

I've also listened to Trip podcast, Yuval Noah Harari is a true humanitarian, it's a great pity we don't seem to have many like him in politics. The world would certainly be a better place if we did. We definitely need more world leaders to follow Biden's lead. It is possible to fully support Israel's right to defend herself whilst also reminding Israel's govt that they must follow the law. I can't remember the actual words that Harari used but something like "victims can also be perpetrators" and " Democratic states must maintain decent standards of behaviour in the face of threat or we are no better than they are". His assessment of why Hamas was motivated to take the action they did is also very illuminating and chilling but it clarifies for me why the Israeli incursion into Gaza will be completely counter productive.

Yes. But as he said that Israeli hearts are so broken and filled with fear that they aren’t really thinking straight (or words to that effect) plus of course wretched Netanyahu.

I think in a weird sort of way the population of the world including Israelis and Palestinians are ahead of the curve here. The politicians are singing an old tune although I think Biden has a handle on it.

It would be wonderful if peace in Palestine could be his lasting legacy.

I have no hope of that I am afraid I am continuously devastated by what is happening in Afghanistan on a daily basis. I dont currently see anyone capable of managing this situation. There is no precedent for that amongst our current leaders.

I feel much the same as you do Galaxy. The Israeli government, led by Netanyahu is hard line, as are the terrorists Hamas. It’s been reported the leaders of Hamas are safely in Qatar. I feel no optimism that a settlement will come soon. I don’t know what the answer is, apart from a two state solution, which seems unlikely at present.

I’ve been appalled by the demonstrations that have taken place all over the world in support of the terrrorists actions. In Sydney people chanting ‘gas the Jews’, in Paris water cannons needed to disperse the chanting crowds. In America, according the my friends, demonstrators everywhere, demonstrating against the Jews. Fear amongst the Jewish population in England. Schools closing and children told not to wear their school uniforms as they could be identified as Jews. People on Gransnet asking ‘is this just fear?’ Well I’d be afraid seeing all this going on around me, if I was Jewish, and I’d be keeping my children very close to me, even here in England.

If demonstrations become violent that could be a problem, especially in France where demonstrating is a way of life, in the UK I’m sure the police will control them and maintain order.

My sympathy is with Palestinians, this war descended on them because Hamas just wants to destroy Israel, that’s not going to happen Israel will win this fight, Hamas has obviously been stockpiling weapons for some time but their resources are finite, Israel can outgun them by an order of magnitude.

As for Netenyahu, maybe he will go but will be replace by an even harder line leader. The Yom Kippur war began on the same circumstances a national holiday and relaxed security after a quite period of activity, Golda Mier was replaced by a hard line leader.

Whitewavemark2

foxie48

I've also listened to Trip podcast, Yuval Noah Harari is a true humanitarian, it's a great pity we don't seem to have many like him in politics. The world would certainly be a better place if we did. We definitely need more world leaders to follow Biden's lead. It is possible to fully support Israel's right to defend herself whilst also reminding Israel's govt that they must follow the law. I can't remember the actual words that Harari used but something like "victims can also be perpetrators" and " Democratic states must maintain decent standards of behaviour in the face of threat or we are no better than they are". His assessment of why Hamas was motivated to take the action they did is also very illuminating and chilling but it clarifies for me why the Israeli incursion into Gaza will be completely counter productive.

Yes. But as he said that Israeli hearts are so broken and filled with fear that they aren’t really thinking straight (or words to that effect) plus of course wretched Netanyahu.

I agree, that is why populist govts are so dangerous, they react to what they think will keep them in power rather than what is best for their country in the long term. However, I am still hopeful that more heads of state will step up to the mark and persuade Israel to take a different line. What we are not aware of is what is being said behind closed doors!

I read today ( Times ) that Netenayhu and his government are extremely unpopular with the majority of Israelis.Perhaps then there will not be a hard right government after this one. I'm sure he will be gone before too long.

Please, please, someone tell me I'm wrong but I'm now reading it that people fleeing Gaza are now being bombed

boheminan

Please, please, someone tell me I'm wrong but I'm now reading it that people fleeing Gaza are now being bombed

Yes I just heard that a bus was directly bombed killing over 70 people

boheminan

Please, please, someone tell me I'm wrong but I'm now reading it that people fleeing Gaza are now being bombed

The BBC has verified that 12 bodies, mainly women and children, were seen on video footage of this incident. The other deaths have been claimed, but not verified.

Rachael_Swindon
The International Centre of Justice for Palestinians (ICJP) has written a notice of intention to prosecute UK government officials, for aiding and abetting war crimes in Gaza

Source here - icjpalestine.com/2023/10/14/prime-minister-warned-of-intention-to-prosecute-uk-government-officials-for-complicity-in-war-crimes-in-gaza/

I wonder what is behind Egypt keeping its border closed and not allowing in displaced people from Gaza?

Egypt didn’t close it borders when Syrians fled there.

Is there something going on in the Arab world that the rest of us do not know?

Hamas is associated with the Muslim Brotherhood, which is banned in Egypt. Egypt doesn't want to import any more problems than it already has.

PS. If Iran is involved (as it probably is) Iranians aren't Arabs.

Incidentally, as of 2016 there were 114,911 registered Syrian refugees in Egypt. Gaza has over 2 million residents - that's a big difference.

What on earth has Britain supposed to have done to aid and abet war crimes?
I think I’m living in a parallel universe sometimes!

It’s still morally wrong to close the border to innocent civilians fleeing bombs.

We are constantly told how heartless the U.K. Government is towards taking refugees who arrive in boats from France, which last time I looked was not being bombed.

I think Turkey has taken in the most refugees. If I’m wrong, I’m sure someone will be along to correct me soon.

maddyone

What on earth has Britain supposed to have done to aid and abet war crimes?
I think I’m living in a parallel universe sometimes!

I think it’s probably due to the U.K. selling arms to Israel.

If this is to set a precedent, the courts will be busy for many years, look at all the countries who have supplied Ukraine.

maddyone

I think Turkey has taken in the most refugees. If I’m wrong, I’m sure someone will be along to correct me soon.

I think you are correct, they have been given funding from the EU to help provide for them.

maddyone

What on earth has Britain supposed to have done to aid and abet war crimes?
I think I’m living in a parallel universe sometimes!

Have you read the link?

growstuff

maddyone

What on earth has Britain supposed to have done to aid and abet war crimes?
I think I’m living in a parallel universe sometimes!

Have you read the link?

I do not open links from people I do not know.

GrannyGravy13

It’s still morally wrong to close the border to innocent civilians fleeing bombs.

We are constantly told how heartless the U.K. Government is towards taking refugees who arrive in boats from France, which last time I looked was not being bombed.

Not 2 million!

SKY is reporting that Egypt has agreed to let US citizens pass through Rafa.