Israel and Palestine (thread 3)

Good post Jaberwok. It’s conveniently forgotten that many European countries did not welcome back Jews who survived the concentration camps.
Jewish people who survived Auschwitz and returned to Krakow were attacked, some killed by the towns inhabitants.

I hope so too C21. The two state system would appear to be the only answer,but how to get that system is seemingly extremely if not impossibly difficult. Gaza was administered by Egypt 1948-1967, so perhaps handing it back to Egypt as a short term solution while a two state system was negotiated might be the answer, but I can't see that Egypt would want to. Same with the West Bank, but I doubt Jordan would want that back either.

Good post Jaberwok at 10.05.
Israel is not a terrorist state. What is happening now and since 7/10 is horrible and truly frightening, but of course there is history to it all.
At least the border with Egypt is open, for now at least, and some aid can get in and wounded people can get out.
Perhaps Paddyanne would benefit from a visit to Auschwitz or one of the many other concentration camps set up across Germany and Eastern Europe. The history must be understood in order to understand the situation now.

Thank you Iam64 and maddyone. My cousin + wife visited Auschwitz last summer. Cousins wife is half German . Needless to say they found it deeply moving and thought provoking. Persecution of Jews has existed for centuries in most countrys. Apparently they were 'invited' into this country by William 1st, expelled or killed in 1290 by Edward 1st,something to do with finance and the crusades, reinvited under Oliver Cromwell in the 1650s, and were only tolerated until the early 19th. century when Jewish emancipation occurred. Clearly after centuries of worldwide persecution culminating in the holocaust, the Jews needed a homeland where they could be safe. A two state system is the only answer, but how to get there??

Jaberwok

I hope so too C21. The two state system would appear to be the only answer,but how to get that system is seemingly extremely if not impossibly difficult. Gaza was administered by Egypt 1948-1967, so perhaps handing it back to Egypt as a short term solution while a two state system was negotiated might be the answer, but I can't see that Egypt would want to. Same with the West Bank, but I doubt Jordan would want that back either.

Yes, that would be a solution but neither Jordan or Egypt want anything to do with Palestinians, they have enough problem keep their own extremists under control.

Well quite, that of course is the dilemma beyond the wisdom of Solomon I'm afraid.

Jaberwok

Thank you Iam64 and maddyone. My cousin + wife visited Auschwitz last summer. Cousins wife is half German . Needless to say they found it deeply moving and thought provoking. Persecution of Jews has existed for centuries in most countrys. Apparently they were 'invited' into this country by William 1st, expelled or killed in 1290 by Edward 1st,something to do with finance and the crusades, reinvited under Oliver Cromwell in the 1650s, and were only tolerated until the early 19th. century when Jewish emancipation occurred. Clearly after centuries of worldwide persecution culminating in the holocaust, the Jews needed a homeland where they could be safe. A two state system is the only answer, but how to get there??

If only the Israeli government believed in the two state solution as much as you do Jabberwok. Netanyahu is committed to trying to get Egypt to take the Palestinian people. That's why 1 million were told to go south. He tried to get the EU to back his idea but they rejected it. Egypt will take the wounded but will not accept 2million Palestinians.

Why do you think Egypt won't accept them Glorianny?

Because they are not Egyptian, because they are entitled to live in the land they have occupied for centuries until it was stolen from them. Because to do so would be to permit Israeli expansion and illegal occupation of land, which has been condemned by the UN. Because it would create a huge refugee problem Egypt could not handle. How many reasons do you need?

Egypt doesn't want Hamas, neither does Jordan.

Well of course the terrorism problem will remain. It's impossible to kill an idea by killing people. There would no doubt be numbers of Palestinians who would want back the land they had been driven from and who would mounlet attacks from Egypt. If Israel would then choose to bomb Egypt is debatable. It isn't the easy target Gaza is.
The whole idea that Israel is simply trying to wipe out Hamas is ludicrous. Everyone knows that nationalism isn't destroyed by killing people (even huge numbers) or by shifting them to somewhere else. We tried it with Ireland. It is said that for every terrorist killed another 10 will join in his place. I would think there are many men joining just now, men whose families are dead.

So what’s the solution Glorianny?

James Cleverly has posted this in his X account if you are able to click on the interview it is chilling…

Its the civilians that end up getting the worse of these situations. None of the them want this. Its all political and religious again. I so hope that if the hostages are returned and most of them are safe and not been tortured that the violence will stop. I'm so worried about the Countries that are taking sides in this because I would hate it to escalate any more than what is going on there and in Ukraine.

The conflicts in the Middle East are not mainly about Israel, that is just the current crisis.
Fundamental extremist “Shia”groups including Hamas, Hezbolah, Isis, Muslim Brotherhood all backed by Iran are trying to take over moderate “Sunni” governments, Saudi, Jordan, Egypt and others.
Palestinians are mostly Sunni and have been brainwashed by Hamas that Israel can be destroyed.

BBC are reporting that the first British Nationals have crossed the Rafa crossing into Egypt today.

Heard tonight on the news that the BBC are setting up a radio information service fir Gaza from this week.

Katie59

The conflicts in the Middle East are not mainly about Israel, that is just the current crisis.
Fundamental extremist “Shia”groups including Hamas, Hezbolah, Isis, Muslim Brotherhood all backed by Iran are trying to take over moderate “Sunni” governments, Saudi, Jordan, Egypt and others.
Palestinians are mostly Sunni and have been brainwashed by Hamas that Israel can be destroyed.

OMG if the Saudis are "moderates" there's no hope for any of us.!!!

maddyone

So what’s the solution Glorianny?

The only solution that has ever had any long term effect is compromise Giving people basic human rights, improving their life styles, a booming economy, all play their part. Young men who have a stake in the country do not want to see it destroyed.

Glorianny

maddyone

So what’s the solution Glorianny?

The only solution that has ever had any long term effect is compromise Giving people basic human rights, improving their life styles, a booming economy, all play their part. Young men who have a stake in the country do not want to see it destroyed.

Well, you’d be forgiven for thinking so, but you’d be wrong.
Young Muslim men here, often from good comfortable homes become radicalised and join terrorist groups or commit acts of terrorism.The same happens in many countries with mainly young men and sometimes women.
It’s not a matter of a decent education or lack of jobs or money.
It would be easier to fix if it were.

Oreo

Glorianny

maddyone

So what’s the solution Glorianny?

The only solution that has ever had any long term effect is compromise Giving people basic human rights, improving their life styles, a booming economy, all play their part. Young men who have a stake in the country do not want to see it destroyed.

Well, you’d be forgiven for thinking so, but you’d be wrong.
Young Muslim men here, often from good comfortable homes become radicalised and join terrorist groups or commit acts of terrorism.The same happens in many countries with mainly young men and sometimes women.
It’s not a matter of a decent education or lack of jobs or money.
It would be easier to fix if it were.

Of course they do Oreo but terrorist organisations do not thrive. There will always be some people who will be radicalised. There will always be extremists. But the majority are not. On balance one radicalised young man is much better than a whole army of them, Which is what emerges from countries where people are treated like the Palestinians.

Glorianny

Oreo

Glorianny

maddyone

So what’s the solution Glorianny?

The only solution that has ever had any long term effect is compromise Giving people basic human rights, improving their life styles, a booming economy, all play their part. Young men who have a stake in the country do not want to see it destroyed.

Well, you’d be forgiven for thinking so, but you’d be wrong.
Young Muslim men here, often from good comfortable homes become radicalised and join terrorist groups or commit acts of terrorism.The same happens in many countries with mainly young men and sometimes women.
It’s not a matter of a decent education or lack of jobs or money.
It would be easier to fix if it were.

Of course they do Oreo but terrorist organisations do not thrive. There will always be some people who will be radicalised. There will always be extremists. But the majority are not. On balance one radicalised young man is much better than a whole army of them, Which is what emerges from countries where people are treated like the Palestinians.

Hamas originated from the Muslim Brotherhood movement, as did other terrorist groups.
It is committed to the eradication of Israel, that is their aim.

Well said Glorianny
Give back Palestinians their land that was taken from them. In 1948 800,000 Palistinian people were driven from their land. Ethnic cleansing illegal occupation has been going on ever since. The Palistinians were living in peace in their land for hundreds of years then Nakba. Netanyahu does not want a two state solution. He bolsters Hamas so Palestinians cant be allowed a state of their own. So the State of Isreal is a terrorist state under Netanyahu his military. War crimes.
Many countries are protesting for a peaceful settlement a ceasefire.

I would say the naivety was breathtaking but I dont think its naivety.

OMG if the Saudis are "moderates" there's no hope for any of us.!!!

Everything is relative, compared to Iran Saudi is moderate and they are not funding extremist groups across the world.