Starmer’s Dilemma Over Palestinian Situation

Tory Rebel Tells TRUTH About Palestine On BBC Question Time

m.youtube.com/watch?v=5BRnTrnZtmg&pp=ygUKdG9yeSBvbiBxdA%3D%3D

Israel does not have a right to defend the occupation

See video Netanyahu funds Hamas

It is only difficult for Starmer because the far-left are determined to make it so. As far as I am aware the UN have not yet agreed on a "call for a ceasefire" so what is this ceasefire fire those in Labour want Starmer to agree with?

As Phil Moorhouse tells us - and I am happier to believe him than some of the extremists on here - there are three groups calling on Starmer to call for a ceasefire. The first is basically the momentum group who will attack Starmer on anything they can find. In my view, they are much less Labour than Socialist. And rather like the wealth driven Oligarchs on the right, they do not believe in democracy except where they can manipulate it to their advantage. They are, what now appear to be called "bad-faith actors" who are using this to rescue their failing finances.

The next group is a more genuine group, sensitive to those they represent. Some Labour Councillors are examples of this group. This is the path of least resistance for them.

Thirdly, there are members of the public who are genuinely horrified by the loss of civilian lives on both sides and are calling for a ceasefire. This group our genuine in their horror and are the most numerous.

So, what is the ceasefire they are calling for? What do they mean? Who are they demanding ceases firing? Both Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer's position on this is that their should be a ceasefire. Sunak obviously carries more weight as PM, but they both hold that position.

So why are some still calling for a ceasefire? This comes back to what is a ceasefire? Some don't want a ceasefire for humanitarian reasons. The "pauses" both leaders have called for on humanitarian grounds are not enough for some. The want a permanent ceasefire.

Yes, this is the only way and the right way ... if it could be achieved. There are two large issues that those calling for this seem unable to answer.

Firstly, such a solution would require Hammas to return all hostages and to stop their attacks on Israel. Some only expect Israel to turn back, accepting Hammas keeps the hostages and keeps on firing on Israel. There have been no calls from those attacking Starmer for a complete, both sides ceasefire. Which tells you all you need to know about their motives.

So, if it's a full ceasefire people are calling for, will our Government, particularly our Leader of the opposition have any leverage over the Israeli government? No, nothing.

* * * * *

This post unashamedly plagiarises Phil Moorhouse's report on his channel. There is more which continues to set the arguement in reality, for which balance I am grateful.

What category are you placing the Conservative MP Paul Bristow in DAR ?

Andy McDonald suspended for saying…

“We won’t rest until we have justice, until all people, Israelis and Palestinians, between the river and the sea can live in peaceful liberty.”

Starmer has completely lost the plot.

No Grany it was Andy McDonald who lost the plot. What on earth was he thinking?
news.sky.com/story/andy-mcdonald-senior-labour-mp-suspended-over-deeply-offensive-comments-at-pro-palestine-rally-12996759

But it isn't deeply offensive is it. The Times reported an abridged version of what he said and has since printed a correction. There is nothing offensive about wanting people to live peacefully together, which is what he said.

Is the left wing of the LP determined to jeopardise their own party’s chance of winning the next election? What is wrong with these people?

I don't understand why he was suspended. He wanted both to live in peace.
I think once it's been heard in full he will be back.

"We won’t rest until we have justice, until all people, Israelis and Palestinians, between the river and the sea can live in peaceful liberty.”

That’s what he said it is a call for peace

Downing Street said it was "not acceptable" for people to chant "from the river to the sea" - a phrase referring to the land between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea - as it is "deeply offensive" to many.

But he didn't. He called for peaceful coexistence.

He did. According to Sky News

‘Over the weekend, he attended a pro-Palestine rally, in which he said: "We won't rest until we have justice. Until all people, Israelis and Palestinians, between the river and the sea, can live in peaceful liberty."

He went on to shout "free Palestine".

Those were his actual words, unless you are suggesting he has been misquoted.

These people know exactly what they are doing Casdon and it has very little to do with the protection of civilian lives on both sides. They, like some on here, are fighting a different battle.

What nonsense

LizzieDrip

Is the left wing of the LP determined to jeopardise their own party’s chance of winning the next election? What is wrong with these people?

It seems so LizzieDrip. But then, the further to left or right that you go the less it is about democracy and the more it is about extremist visions - whatever it costs the vulnerable.

Ilovecheese is correct The Times did apologise for their misquote.

Here is is

Neither Labour or the Conservatives have any problems with an all encompassing cease fire. Starmer repeated this in PMQs. The issue is how you achieve this. The UK have little influence and any opposition has none.

A pause will allow food, water and medicines in. There is no magic wand, and the UK, having lost much if not all of their soft power with Israel would be foolish to get themselves cut out of the discussion. We know this is what would happen because it already has, not to the UK but to the UN who certainly have more influence than the UK.

Israel may listen to us but it doesn't need us. A pause at least moves things forward. Suggesting ceasefire at the moment has every chance of stopping even that happen.

Israel has the USA and Britain on their side to continue their genocide. The PM said to Netanyahu I hope you win. Win what non stop bombing the Palestinians. KS agrees, as an opposition he could change PM view by reminding Israel is engaged in war crimes against occupied Palistine. Its good to see many countries people protesting for a ceasefire including Japan, Middle East and a sit in in Grand Central Station in USA by jewishvoiceforlabour.org Jewish people want the bombing of Palestinians to stop.

^Neither Labour or the Conservatives have any problems with an all encompassing cease fire. Starmer repeated this in PMQs. The issue is how you achieve this. The UK have little influence and any opposition has none.

A pause will allow food, water and medicines in. There is no magic wand, and the UK, having lost much if not all of their soft power with Israel would be foolish to get themselves cut out of the discussion. We know this is what would happen because it already has, not to the UK but to the UN who certainly have more influence than the UK.

Israel may listen to us but it doesn't need us. A pause at least moves things forward. Suggesting ceasefire at the moment has every chance of stopping even that happen.^

👏👏👏

Sir Starmer is giving a speech later today to outline the Labour Party’s position on the Israeli Palestine inflict.

Actually Israel does need us. We supply some of the necessary components for the aircraft you see dropping bombs on Gaza.
There has been a request that all arms sales to Israel should be stopped. It hasn't happened. When Turkey bombed Syria the sale of arms to them was suspended.
Providing arms to Israel is breaking the government guidelines that we should not provide weapons which are used to violate humanitarian law.
www.opendemocracy.net/en/israel-palestine-hamas-war-arms-exports-uk-government/

Glorianny

Actually Israel does need us. We supply some of the necessary components for the aircraft you see dropping bombs on Gaza.
There has been a request that all arms sales to Israel should be stopped. It hasn't happened. When Turkey bombed Syria the sale of arms to them was suspended.
Providing arms to Israel is breaking the government guidelines that we should not provide weapons which are used to violate humanitarian law.
www.opendemocracy.net/en/israel-palestine-hamas-war-arms-exports-uk-government/

Actually Israel does need us. We supply some of the necessary components for the aircraft you see dropping bombs on Gaza.

Who are we in this instance Glorianny? Not the government. Stopping companies selling to Israel will make no difference at this point. They have what they need.

Don't you want the problems resolved Glorianny? You seem more intent on attacking Starmer than allowing a solution to be found.

No, DaisyAnneReturns that is not what Glorianny is doing. I don't know of anyone who doesn't want a solution to be found, of course we all want a solution. But that doesn't mean that people can't have different ideas about either what that solution could be or about how it could be achieved.
Starmer has one idea, a great many people do not agree with him, and they are not obliged to agree with him.

I do worry about Israel saying they will continue the bombing to get Hamas, regardless of the fatalities, it has always concerned me the division of the two countries, with Israel have so big an area that contains the religious sites of Arabs. I feel so much for both sides caught up in this, Israel has the weaponry and technology to destroy Gaza. What will there be left for those poor people? So wrong what Hamas did but the ordinary Palestinian didn’t want it to happen. Time is running out for the Israel hostages, what their families are going through I dread to think.
As for KS, isn’t his wife Jewish? with family in Israel. I am not a K S fan but he’s between a rock and a hard place. It would take the wisdom of Solomon to sort this out

I must admit I do feel some sympathy for Sir Kier. He won't be able do right for doing wrong, a horrible position to be in.