The Supreme Court has ruled the Rwanda deportations are illegal

I’m not sure you do fully understand the decision Cornishgreenhouse. The Supreme Court did not rule against exporting asylum seekers to a safe third country. There were aspects of Ruanda which they considered didn’t fit that description. They did not say that asylum seekers must not be sent elsewhere.

You can’t make any assumptions that they are ‘economic migrants’ until the decision making process has been undertaken. This government deliberately delays the ‘processing’ for the purposes of whipping up hatred against these refugees. The real reason for doing this is to remove us from European Charter for Human Rights. The refugees did not tank the economy and get us into the economic mess we are in; the government managed to do that all by themselves

Perhaps you should read again what sandelf said Lettie. The particular people to whom she refers, who she herself says are economic migrants,

Lots of comments, but many have a fundamental misunderstanding. The vast majority of those reaching here are NOT 'refugees' - they are economic migrants.

The assorted groups who want to let everyone in refuse to call them anything but 'refugees', and it's just grossly misleading.

When asked "if you really want to let everyone in, just WHAT is the realistic number we could accept" (given our own well publicised problems - more food banks anyone?!) they cannot answer.

When challenged with "and if you actually want to admit 2 or 3 hundred thousand such people, where would they go?" - they say "lots of room, look at a map".

BUT -- when challenged with "fine, maybe the UK isn't quite as crowded as many think" (our population density is higher than most of Europe though), and re land use, "yes, we could indeed concrete it over, whole new towns for migrants. JUST THINK how popular that would be with voters all round the country . . .care to stand as an MP on that platform??" - the proposers of unlimited immigration tend to go very quiet.

NB :- As I understand the figures, actual GENUINE refugees have a very good acceptance rate -- it just takes quite a while to process them as there have to be checks, unless anyone wants to admit a couple more ISIL terrorists without too many questions?

👏👏👏

They are not all young single men, some leave wives and children behind. I wonder how they exist. What I find difficult to reconcile is, having travelled many miles sometimes taking months, to reach a "safe" country why do these people not apply for refugee status in the first safe country they reach. Or do many know they won't be regarded as a refugee but an immigrant. Surely if you are desperate for safety then anywhere in EU would be safe. Application to move to UK could then follow as an official immigrant. Why do they take the risk, pay thousands of pounds to be smuggled across the channel. All the Travelodge type places in my area are full of young male migrants. Housing list has a 6 year waiting list as it is.

growstuff

missdeke

Germanshepherdsmum

It is indeed untenable. The result of a challenge to the government’s plan to house up to 1700 male asylum seekers in a disused air base in rural Essex is currently awaited.

The SC said that in principle sending asylum seekers to a safe third country is not unlawful, they simply didn’t consider that Rwanda fitted the bill, so maybe a deal will be done with another country.

The migrants were demonstrating outside the base this week. They are saying that they don't have enough suitable food, clothes or blankets and nothing to do. Some of them have only flip flops to wear on their feet. They are only saying what local residents have said all along, wrong plan, wrong place. James Cleverly is the local MP and now he is the Home Secretary, he has agreed with local concern about the place, I wonder if he will change his tune now??? There are currently about 500 migrants housed at the base.

I would imagine he's going to have to think up some smart answer to this.

BTW The reason locals (who don't appear to mind living in the middle of nowhere) are peeved is because they're frightened about the value of their homes. The local council was planning to sell the site off for development of houses for people who don't mind living in the middle of nowhere.

Anyway, it's not going to be in the middle of nowhere for long because the local council is planning hundreds of thousands of new homes not far from the site, so there's going to be a fairly substantial new town fairly soon.

A bit of a sweeping statement about the price of houses. If you checked it out you will find that locals are doing what they can, they are giving free English lessons and providing what they can for the migrants. And where have you got the information about 100s of 1000s of house being built here, please show me the data.

I have read what was said. Any asylum seekers found not to be bono fide are deported. You cannot generalise that every asylum seeker is an economic migrant because the government tells you so. Where is the evidence to rely on this sweeping statement?

4allweknow

They are not all young single men, some leave wives and children behind. I wonder how they exist. What I find difficult to reconcile is, having travelled many miles sometimes taking months, to reach a "safe" country why do these people not apply for refugee status in the first safe country they reach. Or do many know they won't be regarded as a refugee but an immigrant. Surely if you are desperate for safety then anywhere in EU would be safe. Application to move to UK could then follow as an official immigrant. Why do they take the risk, pay thousands of pounds to be smuggled across the channel. All the Travelodge type places in my area are full of young male migrants. Housing list has a 6 year waiting list as it is.

Please explain what you mean. Do you know the definitions of "refugee" and "immigrant"?

missdeke

growstuff

missdeke

Germanshepherdsmum

It is indeed untenable. The result of a challenge to the government’s plan to house up to 1700 male asylum seekers in a disused air base in rural Essex is currently awaited.

The SC said that in principle sending asylum seekers to a safe third country is not unlawful, they simply didn’t consider that Rwanda fitted the bill, so maybe a deal will be done with another country.

The migrants were demonstrating outside the base this week. They are saying that they don't have enough suitable food, clothes or blankets and nothing to do. Some of them have only flip flops to wear on their feet. They are only saying what local residents have said all along, wrong plan, wrong place. James Cleverly is the local MP and now he is the Home Secretary, he has agreed with local concern about the place, I wonder if he will change his tune now??? There are currently about 500 migrants housed at the base.

I would imagine he's going to have to think up some smart answer to this.

BTW The reason locals (who don't appear to mind living in the middle of nowhere) are peeved is because they're frightened about the value of their homes. The local council was planning to sell the site off for development of houses for people who don't mind living in the middle of nowhere.

Anyway, it's not going to be in the middle of nowhere for long because the local council is planning hundreds of thousands of new homes not far from the site, so there's going to be a fairly substantial new town fairly soon.

A bit of a sweeping statement about the price of houses. If you checked it out you will find that locals are doing what they can, they are giving free English lessons and providing what they can for the migrants. And where have you got the information about 100s of 1000s of house being built here, please show me the data.

No, I can't, but I've lived in this are for 40 years, was a parish councillor at one stage, know people who work in planning and I've been following the plans, sales and planning applications for years. If you know the area, have you never asked yourself why some roads have had such big upgrades?

Incidentally, it was Germanshepherdsmum who mentioned house prices a couple of days ago,

PS. I know about the wife of the parish council leader giving free English lessons. I also know the people who have collected clothes and arranged a barber, but were refused access.

LauraNorderr

Yes JenniferEccles desperate people.
They are predominantly young men mainly because their family at home in war torn and unsafe countries give up everything to pay for their eldest son to make a journey to a better life in the hope that they can then send for and share a better, safer, more prosperous life for the other family members.
Think how desperate you would have to be to give up everything you own and potentially put yourself in danger for your son or grandson.

Ukraine is war-torn and unsafe but the men stayed at home to fight the Russians and sent their women and children to safe havens.

The reason the locals are frightened is the existence of up to 1700 single men on their doorsteps. Their fears in that regard are obvious and understandable. A lot of single men seek sex, whether consensual or not. A few locals may be doing what they can for the asylum seekers, but I know from my son living in the next village that they are very much in the minority.

As regards the building of ‘hundreds of thousands’ of houses, I assume you are referring to permission for up to 1,200 houses some miles away having been granted on appeal recently. People with cars or with access to a bus route don’t mind living in the middle of nowhere.

My concern is that the current situation is untenable . We have many young men wandering around as they have nothing to do but being fed and cared for whilst our many homeless are sleeping rough this is not right

orly

LauraNorderr

Yes JenniferEccles desperate people.
They are predominantly young men mainly because their family at home in war torn and unsafe countries give up everything to pay for their eldest son to make a journey to a better life in the hope that they can then send for and share a better, safer, more prosperous life for the other family members.
Think how desperate you would have to be to give up everything you own and potentially put yourself in danger for your son or grandson.

Ukraine is war-torn and unsafe but the men stayed at home to fight the Russians and sent their women and children to safe havens.

Yes, they did, orly.
Women and children first to be sent to safety.

Wanting to come is not the same as needing to come. We are not the nearest safe country for the boat people. We should allow genuine refugees in quickly but not boat people, otherwise what we are saying is 'We don't actually have borders. Come one; come all.' And in that case, we should just build a bridge to France and let everyone in. People forget that we've accepted people from Ukraine and Hong Kong etc. We don't have the housing and infrastructure to cope with anyone else.

A damning report by Amnesty international on the camps in Libya supported by the EU.

www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/01/libya-eu-conditions-remain-hellish-as-eu-marks-5-years-of-cooperation-agreements/

MayBee70

I keep wondering if there’s another country I could move to and can’t believe I’m thinking it.

Which is exactly what every asylum seeker wants. A safer country in which to live. Why do you feel it's OK for you to consider moving and not them?

Germanshepherdsmum

Perhaps you should read again what sandelf said Lettie. The particular people to whom she refers, who she herself says are economic migrants,

I don't see the problem with economic migrants. Every person from the UK who travels abroad to work is also an economic migrant. Is that so wrong?

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s a totally unsuitable place in the middle of nowhere missdeke. I wonder what ‘suitable’ food they want? Perhaps they want to be put up at the Ritz after a shopping spree in the West End to buy clothes.

Perhaps they'd like to be treated as humans, not inconvenient cattle. I love how the British think they can simply decamp to anywhere they like (as 'expats', when they're also actually migrants) but others are treated as criminals simply for wanting the same thing - a better life.

growstuff

missdeke

growstuff

missdeke

Germanshepherdsmum

It is indeed untenable. The result of a challenge to the government’s plan to house up to 1700 male asylum seekers in a disused air base in rural Essex is currently awaited.

The SC said that in principle sending asylum seekers to a safe third country is not unlawful, they simply didn’t consider that Rwanda fitted the bill, so maybe a deal will be done with another country.

The migrants were demonstrating outside the base this week. They are saying that they don't have enough suitable food, clothes or blankets and nothing to do. Some of them have only flip flops to wear on their feet. They are only saying what local residents have said all along, wrong plan, wrong place. James Cleverly is the local MP and now he is the Home Secretary, he has agreed with local concern about the place, I wonder if he will change his tune now??? There are currently about 500 migrants housed at the base.

I would imagine he's going to have to think up some smart answer to this.

BTW The reason locals (who don't appear to mind living in the middle of nowhere) are peeved is because they're frightened about the value of their homes. The local council was planning to sell the site off for development of houses for people who don't mind living in the middle of nowhere.

Anyway, it's not going to be in the middle of nowhere for long because the local council is planning hundreds of thousands of new homes not far from the site, so there's going to be a fairly substantial new town fairly soon.

A bit of a sweeping statement about the price of houses. If you checked it out you will find that locals are doing what they can, they are giving free English lessons and providing what they can for the migrants. And where have you got the information about 100s of 1000s of house being built here, please show me the data.

No, I can't, but I've lived in this are for 40 years, was a parish councillor at one stage, know people who work in planning and I've been following the plans, sales and planning applications for years. If you know the area, have you never asked yourself why some roads have had such big upgrades?

I do live in this area and the roads around here are poorly maintained rural roads. No big upgrades that I know of. The planning appeal for housing on the base was refused and the most recent plan for the base, apart from the migrants, is the prisons.

Paperbackwriter

MayBee70

I keep wondering if there’s another country I could move to and can’t believe I’m thinking it.

Which is exactly what every asylum seeker wants. A safer country in which to live. Why do you feel it's OK for you to consider moving and not them?

I’m not one of the people on here that are against refugees coming here (quite the opposite) so I’m a bit confused by your comment. What I meant was that I never dreamed that one dayI would be living in a country in which someone’s as hateful as Braverman could possibly be Prime Minister. Or even Farage now that he seems to be worming his way into the Conservative Party now that it has morphed into UKIP. Or that I would be afraid to be old here, or sick. Or need to be on benefits.

they should have sent Braverman to Ruanda as the first person to go there. Her vile attitude and arrogance is appalling, but what do you expect? The "i'm alright Jack " attitude goes back to Thatcher etc. Well let her carry on talking. It will just remind decent people why we need to get rid of the lot of them. When they get round to rehashing old P Ms having gone through their list of liars, cheats, selfserving and providing jobs for the boys giving out contracts to people who have no expertise in the subject . To think that Braverman could make people think we are all like her is abysmal.

The far-right are certainly floating to the surface on GN. I'm assuming a great deal of naivety and simplicity of thought at this point rather than grannies going rogue.

The far-right in government are not jumping through all these hoops just to send 200 people to Rwanda, they're doing it to make slaves of 68 million people here.

There are still some Tories with a brain. Damien Green tweeted the other day

The second test is the most unconservative statement I have ever heard from a Conservative politician. Giving the state the explicit power to override every legal constraint is what Putin and Xi do. We absolutely cannot go there.

Of course we cannot. But so in thrall is this weak government to the fascists in their party, they are prepared to contemplate such a move.