The Supreme Court has ruled the Rwanda deportations are illegal

Paperbackwriter

Germanshepherdsmum

Perhaps you should read again what sandelf said Lettie. The particular people to whom she refers, who she herself says are economic migrants,

I don't see the problem with economic migrants. Every person from the UK who travels abroad to work is also an economic migrant. Is that so wrong?

It depends whether the person can support themselves. I suspect that the vast majority of people travelling from the UK to work abroad have the qualifications and ability to support themselves and contribute to the country they have travelled to.

So what are we supposed to do with these illegals?
Take a leaf from Australia's book and turn them round mid-channel and send them back to France? Shooting at them if they fail to comply?
Its easy to criticise, not so easy to come up with a solution.

ExDancer

So what are we supposed to do with these illegals?
Take a leaf from Australia's book and turn them round mid-channel and send them back to France? Shooting at them if they fail to comply?
Its easy to criticise, not so easy to come up with a solution.

Yes to your second question. Turn them round and send them back to France. That’s what the French do to us.

Oh goodness, feelings seem to run high about this. Accusations of ‘far tight’ and ‘fascism’ don’t help.
What should happen? What do those who glibly call out ‘far right’ think should happen? Rwanda is off the agenda, but what should happen? How should Britain behave in this situation? Should Britain accept a never ending situation of arrivals on small boats?
France doesn’t want these people. In France they’re living in tents and under plastic sheets. Some kind hearted volunteers take them a hot meal each day apparently (I watched a report on this recently) but other than that, France doesn’t give a toss about them. They’re happy to wash their hands of them, so their ships escort them into English waters where we pick them up.
What’s the answer? We can’t even house our own homeless? We have increasing numbers of food banks. What a mess!

The far-right are certainly floating to the surface on GN
Do you mean like cream?

I'm sure you didn't 😂😂😂

Paperbackwriter

Germanshepherdsmum

Perhaps you should read again what sandelf said Lettie. The particular people to whom she refers, who she herself says are economic migrants,

I don't see the problem with economic migrants. Every person from the UK who travels abroad to work is also an economic migrant. Is that so wrong?

I think the difference is that those from the UK travelling to work abroad need a visa to do so and arrive by conventional channels.

The whole process needs to be speeded up so that genuine refugees can be given sanctuary here, then allowed to work and those who have no reason to come can be sent back again.

maddyone

Oh goodness, feelings seem to run high about this. Accusations of ‘far tight’ and ‘fascism’ don’t help.
What should happen? What do those who glibly call out ‘far right’ think should happen? Rwanda is off the agenda, but what should happen? How should Britain behave in this situation? Should Britain accept a never ending situation of arrivals on small boats?
France doesn’t want these people. In France they’re living in tents and under plastic sheets. Some kind hearted volunteers take them a hot meal each day apparently (I watched a report on this recently) but other than that, France doesn’t give a toss about them. They’re happy to wash their hands of them, so their ships escort them into English waters where we pick them up.
What’s the answer? We can’t even house our own homeless? We have increasing numbers of food banks. What a mess!

That is rubbish maddyone. France has for years taken far more migrants than the UK. There are settlement centres across France, children in French schools, language lessons and people in training. I have met some of them.
They are frequently rescued from the Channel by the French services and either returned to France or passed to British rescue services depending on where they are found.
The situation is far from perfect, but a huge amount of state and charity based support is in place.
The situation in Calais is dire, but worsened by the appalling conditions in Pas de Calais caused by weeks of flooding of towns, villages, homes and schools. I don't suppose the UK press has bothered to report on that.

Where would they be sent to? We’re told many/most of them through away their documentation. That poses the British authorities a tricky problem.
I’m told 75% of applications are approved (I guess regardless of whether they have documents or not) and I understand that only 25% of applications are approved in France. Someone will probably come along and say these figures are wrong, but anyway, it begs the question, why are fewer applications approved in France? Is it be because the smugglers tell the migrants to throw away the documents? Therefore if the smugglers were eliminated, would the problem be eliminated?

I’m sorry mamie but I think you’re very rude!

Not really rubbish.

www.hrw.org/news/2021/10/07/france-degrading-treatment-migrants-around-calais#:~:text=Five%20years%20after%20French%20authorities,in%20and%20around%20the%20town.

Despite your rudeness, I will reply.
I’ve already said that conditions in France for the migrants are terrible. They live in tents and under plastic sheets in pouring rain and bad weather conditions. Some volunteers kindly take them a hot meal each day. I watched a report on this where the reporter accompanied the volunteers into the tent camp. It is not rubbish, it is happening now.
And obviously since I watched a report on it, your assertion that the British press are not reporting it is wrong.
In Britain migrants are housed in hotels! See the difference?

foxie48

If the govt decides to take us out of the ECHR, I for one, would be prepared to come out onto the streets and march in protest. Or, perhaps they will have changed the law to prevent protests?? I find the thinking and direction of this govt increasingly worrying. Identify scapegoats, use inflammatory language, try to do things contrary to the law, try to change the law so they can do what they want. I know this sounds alarmist but I genuinely feel that unless the Conservative party moves away from it's right wingers we could become increasingly undemocratic.

This started as soon as Johnson became PM. Thinking of how he prorogued Parliament and lied to the Queen. His cavalier way of approaching a problem was to get rid of it legally or illegally. This is fast becoming an extreme right government which in my book means it is returning to the “bad old days” of the Tories as the “nasty Party”. Or as Braverman referred to it recently as “authentic conservatism”. Look at the proposed welfare cuts while food banks increase andwhile Hunt considers a reduction in inheritance tax ; a welcome decision if the economy was buoyant but not at the expense of those in need and the welfare services. I thought the decision to bring back Cameron was a signal that a move to the centre was intended. However, apparently the need to win back disenchanted Tory voters and the hard right is being thought of as the way to go.

These people are not "illegals" ExDancer. It is a word used by those in power to dehumanise a group or race. Government led dehumanisation leads to murder. Surely that is not so far in the past that you cannot recognise that is what happens?

It starts with the low hanging fruit, those least known to us and who a large minority already do not think of as "us". But it always moves on to others.

When they have got rid of human rights for everyone they will move to another group and it is easy to see who this would be. Just think of Johnson's comment during Covid.

why are we destroying economy for people who will die anyway soon.

There are a lot of the elderly. Services have been cut to the bone deliberately. The first ones would be those on income related benefits as they are easier to attack. There would be a push by the mainstream media to "other" them. The basis is there already.

I talked previously re benefits, about a women who had never paid tax. What came back on here? She must have got cash in hand!

This elderly (feisty) lady did her cleaning, dinner-lady duties and care jobs for the council. Nearing 90, she retired before minimum wage was a thing. Although the Equal Pay Act came in in the 1970s, we know many councils were slow to catch up. Indeed, some are still doing do. But no, according to the far-right on here, she must be "different" in some way.

I can see the latest leader of the far-right standing there and telling us, that in a lovely warm country like Rwanda, benefits would no longer be paid to the individual but used to build "villages" (camps) to give the elderly-poor a better life.

Then it would be the elderly who are sick or disabled. This time they would tell us that by 'concentrating' all our elderly together in this way we could provide better services. Of course, we would not demure in case we were included. We would hear of friends whose loved ones had died, but tell ourselves old people die anyway.

The the younger disabled (unless you have wealth) would start being included and more who disagreed with the government would disappear.

The far-right offer what seem to be simple solutions to complex issues - as do the far-left when in power. When did that ever work?

maddyone

Oh goodness, feelings seem to run high about this. Accusations of ‘far tight’ and ‘fascism’ don’t help.
What should happen? What do those who glibly call out ‘far right’ think should happen? Rwanda is off the agenda, but what should happen? How should Britain behave in this situation? Should Britain accept a never ending situation of arrivals on small boats?
France doesn’t want these people. In France they’re living in tents and under plastic sheets. Some kind hearted volunteers take them a hot meal each day apparently (I watched a report on this recently) but other than that, France doesn’t give a toss about them. They’re happy to wash their hands of them, so their ships escort them into English waters where we pick them up.
What’s the answer? We can’t even house our own homeless? We have increasing numbers of food banks. What a mess!

Maddyone if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck I think we should call it a duck.

Additionally the British press regularly report on how British Border Force pick up the migrants, who are in danger of drowning in the dinghies they use, as they enter British waters. The French ships accompany the dinghies into British waters and can clearly be seen in the reports that you Mamie claim don’t happen. This is regularly reported, with footage, so your assertion that it is not reported is wrong.
I live on the south coast and I don’t know if we get more reports than other areas, but it is regularly reported here.

maddyone

Despite your rudeness, I will reply.
I’ve already said that conditions in France for the migrants are terrible. They live in tents and under plastic sheets in pouring rain and bad weather conditions. Some volunteers kindly take them a hot meal each day. I watched a report on this where the reporter accompanied the volunteers into the tent camp. It is not rubbish, it is happening now.
And obviously since I watched a report on it, your assertion that the British press are not reporting it is wrong.
In Britain migrants are housed in hotels! See the difference?

The police went in some time ago and demolished the tent 'cities' leaving the people, including children, just standing there with no shelter, according to Human Rights Watch in my link above.
Two children watch as police seize their tent during an eviction of a migrant encampment in Grande-Synthe, northern France, January 21, 2021

The tents have gradually reappeared since then.

DAR I think it is merely your opinion. We are of course all entitled to our opinions, but that doesn’t make yours right. Do you think it’s helpful to make accusations of far right or fascism?
I’m not sure many people really understand what fascism is these days. To begin with, a fascist state would not be anticipating an election in the near future, unlike Britain.

"Rudeness" is a word people use when the truth puts their views in full daylight.

Why is the truth important? Truth is the foundation for a fair and just society. If people are not prepared to hear the truth then presumably they don't care about either.

How do you think dictators first come to power maddyone? The manipulation of democracy is well written about. Maybe it's time to do some reading.

The tents have gradually reappeared since then.

Quite Callistemon. The report I watched recently was about a week ago. The reporter went into the tent camp and filmed the absolutely appalling conditions the migrants were living in there. So this is happening now. And as the weather deteriorates it will get worse for the migrants. France is ignoring them. Only the kind hearted volunteers, who live locally, care enough to take in hot food for them. I’ve no idea where they wash, go to the toilet, or take care of their day to day needs. It’s an appalling situation in France for them.

No, rudeness is accusing those with a different view of facism and telling them their posts are rubbish.

The way these glib accusations are thrown out regularly on Gransnet shows extreme intolerance, inability to discuss a problem rationally and is quite worrying.

DAR again your opinion only. Another poster was very rude in calling my post rubbish. I didn’t post an opinion, I posted about the situation in France for the migrants, which is appalling. That is actually a fact, not an opinion.

These are the figures from last year.
"How many immigrants or foreigners are there in France? In 2022, 7.0 million immigrants live in France, or 10.3% of the total population. 2.5 million immigrants, or 35% of them, have acquired French nationality". (Translated from the French.)
The reception centres have existed for several years and are all across France. The people I met near here in Normandy had been brought from Calais by coach and were living in a former boarding house for a school. They were learning French and receiving support in understanding the requirements for citizenship and getting to know volunteers from the local community.
If you read the French press you will see that many small boats are rescued and brought back to France, many under difficult circumstances. If they are in British waters they will indeed be taken to England.
The situation I was referring to in Pas de Calais is not just about migrants caused by flooding concerns large numbers of the population in many towns and villages. Many people have been made homeless.
I think saying "the French don't give a toss" was pretty rude, given how much support has been given across the country.

You win mo. I do have opinions (which I back by facts and historical reference) but yours are obviously superior to everyone else's.

(Time to go and do something more useful, I think)

maddyone

DAR again your opinion only. Another poster was very rude in calling my post rubbish. I didn’t post an opinion, I posted about the situation in France for the migrants, which is appalling. That is actually a fact, not an opinion.

I think it’s fair to say you posted a half truth only maddyone. You ignored the detail about how many migrants France has settled, and the actions they are taking, as Mamie pointed out. I can understand their frustration with the UK system, which is incompetent.