So pleased to see hostages being released.

growstuff
I have said it before, and will say again, as a mother and a grandmother, and an ex teacher of young children, as far as I am concerned, ALL the children caught up in this war, both Israeli and Palestinian, are innocent, completely innocent.
I’m surprised you haven’t noticed that I’ve said that before so I’ve said it again.

That categorically doesn’t mean that I think all Palestinians are innocent. I’ve been shocked by the baying jeering crowds just last night as two terrified Israeli hostages were released, and the Palestinian crowd cheering and spitting on the body of the dead Israeli girl paraded through Gaza on 7/10. It is clear that a great many people absolutely do support Hamas in Palestine and I have total sympathy for the poor souls in Palestine who do not support Hamas. Would they even dare to say it? Probably not is my guess.

silverlinings48 Israel have retaliated to the worst attack on Jews since the Second World War.

It seems impossible for you and others to accept that if Hamas hadn’t attacked on 7/10 the war as it is, wouldn’t be happening.

How could any Government of any Country not retaliate when faced with the horrors of 7/10.

Is it over the top, yes. Israel is facing a cowardly enemy that is hiding amongst civilians.

Two Israeli hostages have already testified that they were held captive by a Gazan doctor and a UNWHCR teacher. How many other establishment figures are Hamas?

I saw Jews shouting for the eradication of Palestinians on tv.
That doesn’t mean I think all Jews have these views.
Yes given history there is hatred on both sides but the sides aren’t equal.

Exactly maddyone

silverlining48

I saw Jews shouting for the eradication of Palestinians on tv.
That doesn’t mean I think all Jews have these views.
Yes given history there is hatred on both sides but the sides aren’t equal.

Are you justifying crowds cheering and spitting on the body of a raped and murdered 20 year old girl?

Or crowds jeering and baying at terrified hostages in the process of being handed over to the Red Cross?

It sounds like it to me.

No GrannyGravy we're not thick and we know very well that the Hamas attack was the catalyst for this current war.

So what would you do now if you were a Palestinian? And what would be going through your mind?

The leaflets which Israel has been dropping show very clearly that residents of Gaza are been driven towards Rafah. What will happen then?

There is no doubt that Israel will win this war, so what's going to happen next? About two million Gazans have been displaced or killed and there are nearly three million in the West Bank. What's going to happen to them?

Nearly five million people will have no country. Will they be left to wander around a world which doesn't want them? I can't be the only one who sees history repeating itself.

maddyone

silverlining48

I saw Jews shouting for the eradication of Palestinians on tv.
That doesn’t mean I think all Jews have these views.
Yes given history there is hatred on both sides but the sides aren’t equal.

Are you justifying crowds cheering and spitting on the body of a raped and murdered 20 year old girl?

Or crowds jeering and baying at terrified hostages in the process of being handed over to the Red Cross?

It sounds like it to me.

It doesn't sound like that at all.

I try to look at the bigger picture.

maddyone

growstuff
I have said it before, and will say again, as a mother and a grandmother, and an ex teacher of young children, as far as I am concerned, ALL the children caught up in this war, both Israeli and Palestinian, are innocent, completely innocent.
I’m surprised you haven’t noticed that I’ve said that before so I’ve said it again.

That categorically doesn’t mean that I think all Palestinians are innocent. I’ve been shocked by the baying jeering crowds just last night as two terrified Israeli hostages were released, and the Palestinian crowd cheering and spitting on the body of the dead Israeli girl paraded through Gaza on 7/10. It is clear that a great many people absolutely do support Hamas in Palestine and I have total sympathy for the poor souls in Palestine who do not support Hamas. Would they even dare to say it? Probably not is my guess.

I obviously need a trip to Specsavers.

Different words which can be used for Held captive could be held safely, a house not in tunnels . they were fed and watered where food and water was short, and came back in One piece which is about as good as it gets, under the circumstances.
I am not making light of this but
I know which I would prefer given a choice,
Checking out now I can’t keep banging my head against these hard walls .

growstuff I am not a military strategist.

The UN is monitoring the Lebanon/Israeli Border with ^boots on the ground^(including U.K. military) perhaps they should mobilise more troops and somehow get an agreement to go into Gaza along with patrolling the Israel/Gaza border in an effort to secure peace. Encourage both sides to stop firing rockets at the other side.

Gaza will have to be rebuilt, with enough aid this will give employment to many Palestinian civilians.

By the way I never said that you were thick it’s not my modus operandi to be rude.

silverlining48

Different words which can be used for Held captive could be held safely, a house not in tunnels . they were fed and watered where food and water was short, and came back in One piece which is about as good as it gets, under the circumstances.
I am not making light of this but
I know which I would prefer given a choice,
Checking out now I can’t keep banging my head against these hard walls .

You really are making light of this.Grabbed by terrorists from your own home maybe after seeing others murdered and hearing the screaming and held by them, often in the dark, living in fear for over a month.Will there be torture or will you be killed and will you ever see your family again.That’s the reality.
And something else for you to consider, if you were dropped right now magically into Israel what would Jewish people there say and do to you? Nothing. If you were dropped anywhere in Gaza what would they say and do to you?It’s not bearable even to think about.Yet so much misguided sympathy goes their way.The only innocents there are children.

I have just watched the final part of Norma Percy's Israel and the Arabs, Elusive Peace. I recommend the series (on I player) but it has left me feeling very angry with the Israeli Government and Ariel Sharon, known as "the butcher of Beirut" for his part in the 1982 Lebanon war, in particular for his dishonesty and unwillingness to compromise or negotiate, George Bush has a lot to answer for as well for his cowardice and lack of principles. If you think you know the motives behind Israel passing governance of Gaza to the Palestinians, this is well worth watching.

"A document obtained by Israeli authorities at least a year before the attack “outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people,”
from the Israeli Times but taken from the New York Times. This is now accepted as being true but had bee rumoured since 7/11.
Why did the Israeli govt choose to ignore this? They had been turning a blind eye to the activities of Hamas because they wanted Hamas to be a viable opposition to Fatah in the West Bank. Why did Israel move IDF troops from Gaza to the West Bank leaving the Kibbutzim nearest to Gaza largely unprotected? Anyone want to comment on what seems to be a huge miscalculation?

foxie48 cynical me thinks there was no miscalculation.
Mr Netanyahu has been wanting an excuse this confrontation for years. He is now in a position to pass the blame for it on to both Hamas and his more right wing coalition partners.

I watched the first 3 episodes of Elusive Peace on i player which Foxie recommended and it is informative snd interesting.
I have to go to bed as early rise tomorrow but will catch up with the redo over the weekend.

I've yet to hear a single commentator say that they believe it's possible for Israel to wipe out Hamas, just google and even Jewish media as well as international media say the same thing. The IDF cannot continue their bombing campaign without killing civilians including children. Hamas certainly has it's supporters in Gaza and now, increasingly in The West Bank but there are many who do not support the terrorist actions of Hamas (just like many Germans did not support Hitler and the Nazis). International support for the war is waning and even the US is saying publicly that the lives of civilians need to be protected (what they are saying behind closed doors is likely to be much more direct!) However, it is in Netanyahu's interests to keep the war going as it is generally agreed he is finished politically and will face the corruption charges that to date he has managed to dodge. How much of this dreadful war is about the security of Netanyahu rather than the security of Israel?

It’s not about wiping out Hamas totally it’s about reducing their numbers and their capabilities for the near future.
Which is exactly what’s happening.Its irrelevant if Gazans support Hamas or not, but of course many do anyway.

"We have set two goals for the war: to eliminate Hamas by destroying its military and governing capabilities and to do everything possible to bring our hostages at home," announced Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, as Israel expanded its ground operations in Gaza.
Eliminate dictionary definition completely remove or get rid of (something).

Oreo

It’s not about wiping out Hamas totally it’s about reducing their numbers and their capabilities for the near future.
Which is exactly what’s happening.Its irrelevant if Gazans support Hamas or not, but of course many do anyway.

You may think it is irrelevant but to the million + children, their mothers and those who are not supporters of Hamas, it is extremely relevant. They are humans not just collateral damage in this war, I am totally appalled by your response. tbh Words fail me!

Oreo

It’s not about wiping out Hamas totally it’s about reducing their numbers and their capabilities for the near future.
Which is exactly what’s happening.Its irrelevant if Gazans support Hamas or not, but of course many do anyway.

They never will manage to do that.

One of the Labours of Heracles:
Anyone who attempted to behead the Hydra found that as soon as one head was cut off, two more heads would emerge from the fresh wound.

Foxie48
I see nothing wrong in saying wiping out Hamsas How else can’t be said?

Should Israel stop the war now?

If Israel does stop, what do you think Hamas will do?

I think they will regroup, and plan their next heinous attack on innocent Israelis.

Do you think that they will stop at Jews, do you not think that other fundament Muslim terrorist organisations will think they can attack non-Muslim societies because world opinion is against military intervention/action?

It is heartbreaking seeing injured innocents, casualties of war. The truth is that war is brutal, and it is usually the innocents that suffer the most.

MerylStreep

Foxie48
I see nothing wrong in saying wiping out Hamsas How else can’t be said?

Please read what I have posted as you have clearly misunderstood my post 09.20.06

foxie48

"We have set two goals for the war: to eliminate Hamas by destroying its military and governing capabilities and to do everything possible to bring our hostages at home," announced Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, as Israel expanded its ground operations in Gaza.
Eliminate dictionary definition completely remove or get rid of (something).

Nit picking.
I think most people know, including BN that any terrorist group with rich backers will never totally be got rid of but they can be so reduced as to become ineffective for quite a while.
I think that’s what Israel is aiming for.

foxie48

Oreo

It’s not about wiping out Hamas totally it’s about reducing their numbers and their capabilities for the near future.
Which is exactly what’s happening.Its irrelevant if Gazans support Hamas or not, but of course many do anyway.

You may think it is irrelevant but to the million + children, their mothers and those who are not supporters of Hamas, it is extremely relevant. They are humans not just collateral damage in this war, I am totally appalled by your response. tbh Words fail me!

Tbh there are many responses on here that appall me as well.
You have your view of this conflict and I have mine.