So pleased to see hostages being released.

GrannyGravy13

Should Israel stop the war now?

If Israel does stop, what do you think Hamas will do?

I think they will regroup, and plan their next heinous attack on innocent Israelis.

Do you think that they will stop at Jews, do you not think that other fundament Muslim terrorist organisations will think they can attack non-Muslim societies because world opinion is against military intervention/action?

It is heartbreaking seeing injured innocents, casualties of war. The truth is that war is brutal, and it is usually the innocents that suffer the most.

It is heart breaking but it is also pointless and probably illegal. Israel has a very long history of using violence to quell opposition, it also has a number of it's PMs who have been terrorists so the government of Israel should know that you don't bomb terrorists out of existence you just push them into the shadows until they re-emerge stronger and with more violence. I've posed a number of questions that no-one wants to answer.
With reference to the evidence of a potential attack by Hamas: Why did the Israeli govt choose to ignore this?
They had been turning a blind eye to the activities of Hamas because they wanted Hamas to be a viable opposition to Fatah in the West Bank. Why did Israel move IDF troops from Gaza to the West Bank leaving the Kibbutzim nearest to Gaza largely unprotected?
How much of this dreadful war is about the security of Netanyahu rather than the security of Israel?
I'll add another question. Why were IDF troops protecting illegal settlers on the West Bank and why when these settlers attacked and killed Palestinians, (who were on their own land), were they not charged and tried according to the law?

Oreo

foxie48

"We have set two goals for the war: to eliminate Hamas by destroying its military and governing capabilities and to do everything possible to bring our hostages at home," announced Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, as Israel expanded its ground operations in Gaza.
Eliminate dictionary definition completely remove or get rid of (something).

Nit picking.
I think most people know, including BN that any terrorist group with rich backers will never totally be got rid of but they can be so reduced as to become ineffective for quite a while.
I think that’s what Israel is aiming for.

No, not nit picking. The words spoken by Netanyahu are important and will have been chosen with care. It effectively gives him the opportunity to have the IDF in Gaza for as long as he wishes. I think it is also very relevant that the plight of hostages is second to the elimination of Hamas.

It is heartbreaking seeing injured innocents, casualties of war.

Last week I watched a news item on ITV evening news. It was during the ceasefire so presumably a film team was able to get into Gaza. The first bit was about the little Jewish baby of ten months and his four year old brother, and their mother. It showed film of the baby playing with his parents, giggling and laughing, and also trying to grab his big brother and laughing. The sort of film every family makes these days of their babies and children. Then it cut to film of an older man in Gaza, whose home had been badly damaged by the shelling. He was broken, poor man. The light of his life, his three year old granddaughter had been killed in the attack. Also killed was his older grandson who looked about six maybe, and his daughter badly injured and lying in bed, not really able to move. It showed some clips of the grandad and his little granddaughter playing. She was the most beautiful child, as were the two little red haired boys who were taken hostage and no one seems to know properly where they are or what has happened to them.

What struck me most of all was my husband, who is absolutely adored by our grandchildren, and most other children he comes into contact with, because he is so hands on, and so good and caring towards children. This grandad in Gaza reminded me of my husband and his grandchildren, he was a broken man, and it was this one little granddaughter who he missed most of all.

Hamas must be defeated. There will be no peace in Israel until Hamas is defeated. Ceasefire will not work. It was broken by Hamas with the killing of Jews in Jerusalem and also by firing rockets into Israel yesterday morning. The only way is to defeat and disable, as far as possible Hamas. Societies can never give in to terrorism.

Have you booked your appointment to Specsavers yet growstuff?

foxie48

GrannyGravy13

Should Israel stop the war now?

If Israel does stop, what do you think Hamas will do?

I think they will regroup, and plan their next heinous attack on innocent Israelis.

Do you think that they will stop at Jews, do you not think that other fundament Muslim terrorist organisations will think they can attack non-Muslim societies because world opinion is against military intervention/action?

It is heartbreaking seeing injured innocents, casualties of war. The truth is that war is brutal, and it is usually the innocents that suffer the most.

It is heart breaking but it is also pointless and probably illegal. Israel has a very long history of using violence to quell opposition, it also has a number of it's PMs who have been terrorists so the government of Israel should know that you don't bomb terrorists out of existence you just push them into the shadows until they re-emerge stronger and with more violence. I've posed a number of questions that no-one wants to answer.
With reference to the evidence of a potential attack by Hamas: Why did the Israeli govt choose to ignore this?
They had been turning a blind eye to the activities of Hamas because they wanted Hamas to be a viable opposition to Fatah in the West Bank. Why did Israel move IDF troops from Gaza to the West Bank leaving the Kibbutzim nearest to Gaza largely unprotected?
How much of this dreadful war is about the security of Netanyahu rather than the security of Israel?
I'll add another question. Why were IDF troops protecting illegal settlers on the West Bank and why when these settlers attacked and killed Palestinians, (who were on their own land), were they not charged and tried according to the law?

Conspiracy theories foxie48

At this time, with the rise of anti Semitism once again, I feel alarmed. Especially as school kids and teachers seem to get involved with pro Palestinian marches. We’ve seen it all before but we never learn.

No Oreo valid questions to well documented information and questions that will be being asked by Israelis themselves as well as internationally. Try answering the question instead of trying to deflect it, not the first time you have used this tactic if my memory serves me correctly.

It's good to see that hostages have been released but I find Hamas's tactics of splitting families when releasing abhorrent as it only prolongs the agony.

Hostage taking is vile and taking children is just the worst thing and I totally agree with you that splitting up families is totally abhorrent. I just wish more hostages had been released and that there was a permanent ceasefire.

foxie48

No Oreo valid questions to well documented information and questions that will be being asked by Israelis themselves as well as internationally. Try answering the question instead of trying to deflect it, not the first time you have used this tactic if my memory serves me correctly.

Depends how far back your memory serves you🙃 if you mean this thread or last Christmas.
Your post was odd as you seem to be laying blame for the murderous incursion on Israel by repeating conspiracy theories. Saying the war is all about BN and his political life is ridiculous, no matter who was in government in Israel at this time the response of Israel would be much the same.You don’t allow one and a half thousand citizens to be killed at the hands of a terrorist group and sit back and wring your hands.
Afterwards there will be questions asked about better security for sure for the future.

nanna8

At this time, with the rise of anti Semitism once again, I feel alarmed. Especially as school kids and teachers seem to get involved with pro Palestinian marches. We’ve seen it all before but we never learn.

You’re right!
Activists have been organising schoolkids and parents and telling them to attend protests and marches out of school time.

Susie42

It's good to see that hostages have been released but I find Hamas's tactics of splitting families when releasing abhorrent as it only prolongs the agony.

Hamas are abhorrent full stop.

Yes Oreo, Hamas and all terrorist groups are are vile.

Just wondering if anyone else saw the news item, about Havering Council, who were considering not allowing the Menorah to be put up in the town centre for Hanukkah due to the situation at the moment. Thankfully they backtracked after the Muslim Council wrote to them and said they shouldn’t do that, it should be put up as usual. The letter was read out and it was a lovely letter. Anyway I’m thinking that Havering Council were probably concerned about potential clashes with different groups if the Menorah went up. Given there are reported to be another 17 pro Palestine marches today up and down the country, it’s hardly surprising that Havering were afraid of possible trouble.
How sad it’s come to this in the UK.

Havering Council will be the tip of the iceberg am guessing.
That they were even thinking of not putting up usual decorations says it all.☹️
Over the next year anti-semitism will get worse, here and everywhere.

Oreo A poll from November 14 has Netanyahu's popularity among Israeli Jews at about 4 percent and both his opponents and traditional allies are calling for him to resign once the current war ends.(AP news 18.11.23) It would seem that the population does believe that he is responsible for what has happened in Israel. In order to stay in power BN formed a coalition with with several members of the Israeli far-right, including figures such as Itamar Ben-Gvir, who was previously a supporter of Kach, now considered a “terrorist” group in Israel and Bezalel Smotrich, these people oppose Palestinian statehood and want further expansion in the West Bank. It is generally accepted that this shift to the far right has moved the focus of Israeli politics from the security of it's people to one of expansion. If you read my post again I think you will understand why my questions are relevant rather than based on conspiracy theories. fwiw this does not remove any responsibility from Hamas for their vile actions but Israel would usually have been well prepared for such an attack.

Nobody but hamas is responsible for what happened on 7 th October.
BN’s reforms and policies have been really unpopular, but people need reminding that it’s only a year since he was voted for by Israelis so they liked him then,and its either the fifth or sixth time he has been in office in a long career.
Of course people are angry with him for not being able to prevent the massacre and for that alone, fairly or unfairly he will have to step down at a later date.I believe he may face corruption charges too.He’s in his 70’s so not exactly young in any case.
He was voted in and the buck always stops with anyone at the top.That doesn’t mean Israelis don’t agree with a hard line approach to going after hamas.

Actually oreo he clung to power by making alliances which actually made him even more unpopular. Yesh Yatid the centrist liberal party got the most votes at 32.8%, Likud, Netanyahu's party got 17%, however by making alliances witheven less popular parties ie Shas (4.3%) Religious Zionism (4.5%) United torah Judaism (0.8%) and a couple of break away parties, he managed to scrape a government together. By no means was Netanyahu a popular choice and to get the agreement of the far right zionist parties he made some very unpopular agreements. He is hugely unpopular in Israel and this war will hopefully see him off. This information is readily available from reliable sources if you want to check it out.

I don’t need to google foxie48 cos you already did so.The point is that’s how politics works with voting, it happens in most countries where power sharing by different parties is the norm.The fact that he’s been in office so many times says it all.
He is very unpopular as people there hate his reforms/ policies and with the recent massacre he won’t get into power again in the future.So, we agree on something.It has to be said that he has his supporters tho.
Also in coalition they all seem agreed on one thing, to go after hamas hard which is what they will continue to do.

⬇️

So the US has hardened it's line with Israel, will Netanyahu listen or will he ignore his greatest ally which provided Israel with $14.5 billion of military aid this year and has provided a total of $124 billion since WW2? I, in common with many others on here, have no problem with Israel defending itself, what we cannot condone is the deaths of 1,000s of innocent Gazans and the humanitarian catastrophe caused by bombing peoples homes and Gaza's infrastructure whilst denying access to to aid convoys. Clearly the US now is taking the same stance.
Mr Blinken said that it meant "taking more effective steps to protect the lives of civilians, including by clearly and precisely designating areas and places in southern and central Gaza where they can be safe and out of the line of fire".

"It means avoiding further significant displacement of civilians inside of Gaza. It means avoiding damage to life-critical infrastructure, like hospitals, like power stations, like water facilities."

"And it means giving civilians who've been displaced to southern Gaza the choice to return to the north as soon as conditions permit. There must be no enduring internal displacement."

It’s good to hear the US speaking publicly about the advice/instruction it’s been speaking away from the public eye.
Netanyahu and his cronies must listen to the US which is saying what the world wants

Iam64

It’s good to hear the US speaking publicly about the advice/instruction it’s been speaking away from the public eye.
Netanyahu and his cronies must listen to the US which is saying what the world wants

I'm hoping more countries put their weight behind the US, including our own! We'll see but as you will understand from my previous posts I am concerned that it is very much in Netanyahu's political interests for the incursion to last as long as possible.

No comments on how Hamas treats its hostages?

GrannyGravy13

No comments on how Hamas treats its hostages?

The silence is deafening, GrannyGravy!

Incredible.