So pleased to see hostages being released.

The article by Janice Turner in yesterday's Times on the sexual violence perpetrated by Hamas on Israeli women is terribly distressing - pelvises broken due to violent gang rapes etc.

As she says, why is the #MeToo crowd silent on Hamas rape? Much of it has been filmed by Hamas themselves.

Evil murderous thugs.
How anyone can kidnap a child and deliberately torture that child is beyond our understanding.
Gang rape women to the extent of causing such physical damage?

War is terrible, we pray for peace, we can weep for the casualties of war, but there is something deeply abhorrent and utterly evil in what Hamas does to its victims.

Hamas actions are beyond evil…

I pray for peace, but those who are guilty of the mist heinous crimes must be held to account.

GrannyGravy13

No comments on how Hamas treats its hostages?

Lots of comments in my head; none of them suitable for GN.

Many comments in this thread, including my own, have been about the despicable nature of Hamas. Israel's treatment of prisoners isn't all milk and honey either. I just don't feel that there's anything new to say about it right now.

Heart breaking stuff. Sorry, I hardly know what to say but am commenting so I can follow.

I have said already said that I find the actions of Hamas abhorrent. I don't feel the need to keep saying how vile the actions of Hamas have been and continue to be, anyone with a scrap of humanity in them knows that. Where the difference seems to be is the willingness, or not, to condone the killing of Palestinian children and other innocent Palestinians. What has been discussed on this thread of late has never been supportive of Hamas but it has been questioning of the Israeli govt and clearly it's greatest supporter is also questioning it's response and asking it to change it's tactics. That's a fact, not an opinion.

Where the difference seems to be is the willingness, or not, to condone the killing of Palestinian children and other innocent Palestinians

Who? Where?
I have not seen that at all.

Not one person condones the killings. Not one foxie.

foxie48, I’ve seen no willingness to condone ‘the killing of Palestinian children and other innocent Palestinians’.

There are Scales of Evil, foxie.

Well we all seem to agree then, that the IDF needs to make more effort in ensuring that innocent children are not collateral damage, the Gazans need to have adequate humanitarian aid and should not have their homes bombed out of existence and that the US is correct in changing it's position.

But no, Callistemon there are no "scales of evil". Evil is evil. Well it is in my world.

Yes my impression is that’s what the majority have always wanted
You’re stressing this but making no mention of gang rapes, murder and hostages.

Iam64

Yes my impression is that’s what the majority have always wanted
You’re stressing this but making no mention of gang rapes, murder and hostages.

I am very aware of the inhumanity of these people and I can see it is a focus for some people but how ever cruel and inhuman someone is, I don't believe we should think that should allow us to become less human ourselves. Some people would bring back hanging for certain crimes, I wouldn't as I think it is de-humanising for us all, let alone the actual hangman. I am concerned for the members of the IDF who are being asked to carry out this incursion, I think many will be scarred for life. I am not a naive pacifist but I think any war has to be winnable and for Israel winning has to mean peace and security and I don't think they will achieve that by this means.

foxie48

Well we all seem to agree then, that the IDF needs to make more effort in ensuring that innocent children are not collateral damage, the Gazans need to have adequate humanitarian aid and should not have their homes bombed out of existence and that the US is correct in changing it's position.

But no, Callistemon there are no "scales of evil". Evil is evil. Well it is in my world.

But no, Callistemon there are no "scales of evil". Evil is evil. Well it is in my world

It is a known fact, a scale classified by a psychiatrist and used by experts in psychiatry, psychology, criminologists and forensic experts, not something I just made up!

I'm not a criminologist, psychologist etc so no I didn't know about the scale with 22 points, thanks, I am now aware of it. I was out all day yesterday so I didn't hear the latest information about the depraved sexual abuse of women and men on 07/11 until this morning, it is totally shocking and is beyond depraved but it begs the question, what enables anyone to behave in such a way? It is said that the terrorists were given drugs and certainly that can lead to inhuman , sadistic behaviour. I understand there's also a link between childhood trauma and exposure to violence that can have long term negative effects in adulthood. Not just PTSD but personality disorders such as those of a sociopath or psychopath. This is another reason I feel the children in Gaza need as much protection as is possible or Israel may find itself with more recruits to terrorist organisations with extremely disturbed minds. Israelis do their military service at 18 normally, whilst there is still a level of plasticity in their brains, what is this doing to them? I also wonder how the continued violence and threat affects both the Israeli and Palestinian psyche, but then again I'm not a psychologist!
The world has seen this sort of behaviour in other countries and in other wars. I am still totally unable to understand how seemingly perfectly ordinary Germans and Poles etc managed to work in the concentration camps of WW2 but they did!

I am surprised that you had no idea of the heinous acts carried out by Hamas on 7/11 foxie48

In the U.K. you can join the armed forces at 17, not deployed to a war situation until 18, I think that is the norm.

Nothing and I mean nothing can excuse those who carried out those acts on 7/11. They were videoing their actions and posting them on social media and to their friends and family immediately, and in some instances they are being encouraged to do so.

One which stays in my mind is the young woman begging to be killed, instead she was repeatedly raped, had her breast cut off and finally shot in the head during a rape. She was then beheaded and her head carried around as a trophy.

I can totally understand why Israel is acting as it is, whilst feeling empathy for the innocent Gazans.

(Source, various journalist who have been shown these images, along with survivors statements)

And here it is, foxie48 I thought it wouldn’t be long before the reasons for hamas terrorists behaving the way they did on Oct 7th would be forthcoming.It must be drugs, it must be childhood trauma and so on and so on.Stop making excuses for evil men with a crazy cause.

I agree Oreo no excuses never, ever.

It wasn't 7/11. It was 7/10.

No excuses, ever. None!

I wish someone could explain to me exactly how killing Palestinian children is in anyway punishing or bringing to justice a single one of the perpetrators of the inhumane acts of 7/10. Is it a question of numbers? So many children for each victim? Does it depend upon the horror of the act?
Is it based on the chance of a cluster of bombs taking out one of the terrorists.
The whole concept that bombing will destroy Hamas is flawed. Hamas funders and leaders are not in Gaza. The only thing the bombing will do is act as a recruiter.

Nowhere have I excused the behaviour of Hamas, not in one single word or sentence. There is absolutely nothing that excuses it. Yes, 07/10 not 07/11! My post is questioning if the actions of the IDF are creating more people capable of such inhuman and depraved behaviour and tbh I think you know exactly what I am saying. GG13 I knew about the atrocities committed by Hamas on 07/10 but I had not heard the news yesterday that gave further information of the sexual abuse of women and men perpetrated by Hamas on 07/10. I think that is also clear from my posts.

I knew about people being stripped and raped, being beheaded, or burnt alive, and shot to death, all of which horrified me, just as it did others. However until yesterday I had no idea that girls had been gang raped until their pelvises broke, or that one young woman, when told to strip so she could be raped, refused, and so a Hamas terrorist picked up a spade and beheaded her with it. I only know this now because of an eye witness report, a young man who managed to hide himself under several dead bodies but was able to witness gang rapes, shootings and beheadings. I don’t know how he’ll ever get those images out of his head.

I hate the war, with its casualties and deaths. I hated what Hamas did, with its murderous rampage and it’s tortures.
However I don’t know what Israel was supposed to do. If such an event of murder and torture happened here in the UK, we would rightly expect our government to send in our armed forces until the forces of evil were defeated. That’s what the allies did in WW2. Until the Nazis were defeated.
I agree that when this war is finished, the Israelis will change their government. Netanyahu will be replaced by someone else, but I suspect that the Israelis will still want a government that will defend them vigorously.

However I don’t know what Israel was supposed to do. If such an event of murder and torture happened here in the UK, we would rightly expect our government to send in our armed forces until the forces of evil were defeated. That’s what the allies did in WW2. Until the Nazis were defeated

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