So pleased to see hostages being released.

maddyone

I agree with you GrannyGravy.
Gaza was not starving before 7/10.
Hamas took in weapons. They were funded by Iran, it is claimed, and by the money given as aid by other countries. This was apparently spent on building tunnels, reinforcing them with steel, and collecting arms.

And Israel turned a blind eye because it wanted to create division with Fatah in the West Bank.

growstuff

maddyone

I agree with you GrannyGravy.
Gaza was not starving before 7/10.
Hamas took in weapons. They were funded by Iran, it is claimed, and by the money given as aid by other countries. This was apparently spent on building tunnels, reinforcing them with steel, and collecting arms.

And Israel turned a blind eye because it wanted to create division with Fatah in the West Bank.

So if as you say Israel knew the aid money going into Gaza was being diverted towards building tunnels and amassing weapons , what could they have done?

Stop or try to stop any aid going into Gaza, imagine the international outcry.

Then again they could destroy the tunnels, (sound familiar) again international outcry.

Iam64

Reading some posts here reminds me of the appeasement of Hitler - before he invaded Poland

The rape and murder committed by Hamas are beyond and understanding. Unforgivable, inexcusable and inhuman behaviour.

I agree with you.

Oreo

Iam64

Reading some posts here reminds me of the appeasement of Hitler - before he invaded Poland

The rape and murder committed by Hamas are beyond and understanding. Unforgivable, inexcusable and inhuman behaviour.

I agree with you.

The more I read/hear of the events on 7/10 I find myself feeling physically sick.

growstuff

maddyone

I agree with you GrannyGravy.
Gaza was not starving before 7/10.
Hamas took in weapons. They were funded by Iran, it is claimed, and by the money given as aid by other countries. This was apparently spent on building tunnels, reinforcing them with steel, and collecting arms.

And Israel turned a blind eye because it wanted to create division with Fatah in the West Bank.

The tunnels not only supplied weapons they supplied building materials. Some of the underground shelters were not built by Hamas. Israel built the one under the Al Shifa hospital
it was not a secret that there existed tunnels and underground rooms at the Al-Shifa Hospital complex–indeed, Israel assisted in their construction and hired Hamas militants as guards to protect the contractors who worked on the underground facilities in the 1980s

The World Food Program has classified Gaza as "Food insecure" for many years, with over 50% of households involved. Particularly households headed by a woman.
www.wfp.org/countries/palestine
Poverty and unemployment fuel insecurity and water limitation have all made life in Gaza difficult. All were caused by the Israeli blockade.
Gaza has never had sufficient food to feed its people and its agriculture was severely limited by the water and fuel situation.
.

Well the Israelis are about to flood the tunnels using high powered pumps. Flush out the terrorists in there. A good idea I think. Better than explosives.

Urmstongran

Well the Israelis are about to flood the tunnels using high powered pumps. Flush out the terrorists in there. A good idea I think. Better than explosives.

I just saw that on Sky, they are giving sufficient notice in order for anyone in the tunnels to evacuate.

Far better than targeted bombing.

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

maddyone

I agree with you GrannyGravy.
Gaza was not starving before 7/10.
Hamas took in weapons. They were funded by Iran, it is claimed, and by the money given as aid by other countries. This was apparently spent on building tunnels, reinforcing them with steel, and collecting arms.

And Israel turned a blind eye because it wanted to create division with Fatah in the West Bank.

So if as you say Israel knew the aid money going into Gaza was being diverted towards building tunnels and amassing weapons , what could they have done?

Stop or try to stop any aid going into Gaza, imagine the international outcry.

Then again they could destroy the tunnels, (sound familiar) again international outcry.

Yes, Israel could have stopped aid going into Gaza by illegal routes. It had a fair idea where the tunnel entrances were and could have guarded them and given Gaza the aid itself.

Urmstongran

Well the Israelis are about to flood the tunnels using high powered pumps. Flush out the terrorists in there. A good idea I think. Better than explosives.

OMG no water for people but enough to flood tunnels.

Glorianny

Urmstongran

Well the Israelis are about to flood the tunnels using high powered pumps. Flush out the terrorists in there. A good idea I think. Better than explosives.

OMG no water for people but enough to flood tunnels.

Plenty of sea water available.

Yes lixy they are going to flood the tunnels with sea water.

Thank you GG13 for clarifying that point. Important and I omitted it!

The Israelis won’t give up until they have completely disabled Hamas. Hearing the details which are gradually being released about the sexual violence amid all the other horrific violence inflicted on the Israelis on 7/10, I’m not surprised.
A few details are also beginning to emerge about the treatment of the hostages whilst they were held. The Palestinians who kept them have been accused of committing multiple war crimes as it would appear as they were kept in appalling conditions. Some were raped, they were given insufficient food/water, some were kept shackled, others have been murdered. Some were kept in the tunnels, some in people’s apartments above ground. One was kept by a UN representative, another by a doctor. Medicines were denied and one hostage was operated on by a vet. This is what has been reported. I’m presuming it to be true.

growstuff I may not be a world expert on WW2 and it’s aftermath, but I have read widely around the subject and visited museums in Germany and and other European countries appertaining to this subject. I have visited Auschwitz, Dachau, Stutthof, and Therezin and also visited Munich and Nuremberg, and Warsaw and Krakow.
Please don’t lecture me about ‘doing research.’

No problem Urmstongran 👍🏻

GrannyGravy13

Yes lixy they are going to flood the tunnels with sea water.

So no power to run the desalination plants which might turn that sea water into drinking water for Palestinians, but enough power to pump it into the tunnels. Seawater is what people in Gaza rely on.

maddyone

The Israelis won’t give up until they have completely disabled Hamas. Hearing the details which are gradually being released about the sexual violence amid all the other horrific violence inflicted on the Israelis on 7/10, I’m not surprised.
A few details are also beginning to emerge about the treatment of the hostages whilst they were held. The Palestinians who kept them have been accused of committing multiple war crimes as it would appear as they were kept in appalling conditions. Some were raped, they were given insufficient food/water, some were kept shackled, others have been murdered. Some were kept in the tunnels, some in people’s apartments above ground. One was kept by a UN representative, another by a doctor. Medicines were denied and one hostage was operated on by a vet. This is what has been reported. I’m presuming it to be true.

Food and water have been limited for everyone in Gaza. Medical treatment has been limited. This wasn't the fault of the Palestinian people. If Hamas turned up on your doorstep and demanded you put someone in your attic would you refuse?

maddyone

growstuff I may not be a world expert on WW2 and it’s aftermath, but I have read widely around the subject and visited museums in Germany and and other European countries appertaining to this subject. I have visited Auschwitz, Dachau, Stutthof, and Therezin and also visited Munich and Nuremberg, and Warsaw and Krakow.
Please don’t lecture me about ‘doing research.’

Well, it appears you don't know a great deal, so it was a well-meant suggestion.

If the Israelis aren't going to give up until they've destroyed Hamas, they've just signed themselves up for a conflict in perpetuity.

maddyone

The Israelis won’t give up until they have completely disabled Hamas. Hearing the details which are gradually being released about the sexual violence amid all the other horrific violence inflicted on the Israelis on 7/10, I’m not surprised.
A few details are also beginning to emerge about the treatment of the hostages whilst they were held. The Palestinians who kept them have been accused of committing multiple war crimes as it would appear as they were kept in appalling conditions. Some were raped, they were given insufficient food/water, some were kept shackled, others have been murdered. Some were kept in the tunnels, some in people’s apartments above ground. One was kept by a UN representative, another by a doctor. Medicines were denied and one hostage was operated on by a vet. This is what has been reported. I’m presuming it to be true.

Don't presume anything reported is true.

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

maddyone

I agree with you GrannyGravy.
Gaza was not starving before 7/10.
Hamas took in weapons. They were funded by Iran, it is claimed, and by the money given as aid by other countries. This was apparently spent on building tunnels, reinforcing them with steel, and collecting arms.

And Israel turned a blind eye because it wanted to create division with Fatah in the West Bank.

So if as you say Israel knew the aid money going into Gaza was being diverted towards building tunnels and amassing weapons , what could they have done?

Stop or try to stop any aid going into Gaza, imagine the international outcry.

Then again they could destroy the tunnels, (sound familiar) again international outcry.

They could have opened the borders, permitted development and created a prosperous and thriving country. Terrorism succeeds best where there is inequality and lack of opportunity. Gaza has some of the highest levels of poverty in the world. Most people with comfortable lives don't want to die. There will always be exceptions to this but the majority of the population will live peaceful lives.
Why buy or use anything which has come through a tunnel when you can get it in a local shop? If the tunnels aren't used then Hamas isn't funded or supported.
But let's face it Israel doesn't want a thriving Gaza they want the Palestinians driven out into Sinai.

Glorianny if they flush out Hamas using Israeli pumps, generators and equipment it’s a job well done.

Glorianny what Government would open its borders to people who voted a terrorist organisation to govern them?

A terrorist organisation whose sole aim is to remove every Jew from the planet having open access to a Jewish Country.

I despair…

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny if they flush out Hamas using Israeli pumps, generators and equipment it’s a job well done.

Much like the Hamas command centre they claimed would be found under the Al-Sharif hospital I doubt that they will flush out anything. It's all smoke and mirrors whilst they bomb Gaza and commit genocide.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny what Government would open its borders to people who voted a terrorist organisation to govern them?

A terrorist organisation whose sole aim is to remove every Jew from the planet having open access to a Jewish Country.

I despair…

I suppose one which is actively stealing Palestinian land and suppressing Palestinians couldn't really could they? They are now completing the process they began years ago committing genocide to get rid of Palestinians.