Is escalating the conflict by bombing the Houthis the way to go?

SueBdoo70

I would really like to thank Gloryanny for her rational and well researched contributions to this very difficult subject. Yes, both sides have committed terrible atrocities, both sides vow to kill every last Jew or every last Palestinian. But I think when we hear the word ‘ terrorist ‘ spat out in the media, we automatically assume that they are the ‘ problem ‘. Since October 6th I have read up on the history of Palestine and have been shocked by our own country’s complicity in forcibly removing Palestinians from their lands which they had lived in for centuries. Not only losing their homes, livelihoods, family networks, culture as well as their lives very often. I will now always question the term ‘ terrorist ‘ in future, because there in will lie much wrong doing and oppression. My reason for posting however, is to urge everyone to read Rabbi Haim Soper’s view as supplied by Glorianny further up thread. In it he answers everyone’s questions as to how the crisis can be resolved.

Thanks SueBdoo70
I think that's such an interesting piece. He's obviously very well informed.

I find it fascinating that you always refer to women who ‘sometimes’ treat other women badly. Of course there are. That doesn’t diminish the reality of life in Iran for the vast majority of women - they’re oppressed, abused and exploited

Iam64

I find it fascinating that you always refer to women who ‘sometimes’ treat other women badly. Of course there are. That doesn’t diminish the reality of life in Iran for the vast majority of women - they’re oppressed, abused and exploited

I only do that when people post about men imposing their views. At the time of the revolution the Women's Revolutionary Guard were far more brutal than the men to women who didn't cover them selves properly.
By all means criticise but do so accurately.

merlotgran

MaizieD

I can't help thinking that if the freight shipping lines just didn't use Suez and the Red Sea the houthis wouldn't have any shipping to prey on.

Pull the rug out from underneath their feet...

I know it would be costly, but if the countries willing to spend £billions on weaponry spent it instead on subsidising the extra fuel costs 'world trade' would adjust to the longer waiting times and carry on as before...

I don't think military action is going to do anything but inflame the situation.

That would mean the western economy capitulating to a terrorists group.

How can it pull the rug out from under their feet when they’ll just implement more terror by other means.

Then what?

Is it capitulation or taking away a weapon?

Terror by some other means. What do you have in mind?

Where’s your analysis of what led the Women’s Revolutionary Guard to be ‘far more brutal’ than the men. I read your excuses to explain the horrors perpetrated by Hamas and wonder how that sits with your criticism of the small number of abusive women

merlotgran

Yes, I know that, Gloryanny but I took MaizieD’s* post to mean close the route indefinitely.

Of course I didn't mean indefinitely. I was just thinking of removing the 'targets' for a while. It wasn't really a totally serious suggestion. But armed retaliation isn't a great solution, either.

'World trade' will, I'm sure, adapt to new circumstances. It usually does.

Iam64

Where’s your analysis of what led the Women’s Revolutionary Guard to be ‘far more brutal’ than the men. I read your excuses to explain the horrors perpetrated by Hamas and wonder how that sits with your criticism of the small number of abusive women

They are women who believe in a certain type of Islam. It's a mistake to think that all women think the same. I used to think that head covering was imposed by men until I met two women who performed as "The Hijab Sisters" they made it very clear that wearing the hijab was their choice and no one, man or woman, had the right to stop them.
Our thinking is always the result of the culture we are raised in. To look at things objectively you have to recognise that and accept differing cultures.

Oh dear - I give up Gloryannie - you’re so fixed in the way you look at any subject. Your view on any subject can be anticipated , driven by your narrow approach. I’ll leave it.

Oh I am more than capable of understanding different cultures, my friendship group includes Muslims (some stricter than others), Jews, Hindus, catholics, C of E along with atheists.

Speaking with people and travelling the world broadens one’s horizons and opens one’s mind far more than reading other’s opinions and then cutting and pasting on GN…

GrannyGravy13

Oh I am more than capable of understanding different cultures, my friendship group includes Muslims (some stricter than others), Jews, Hindus, catholics, C of E along with atheists.

Speaking with people and travelling the world broadens one’s horizons and opens one’s mind far more than reading other’s opinions and then cutting and pasting on GN…

I see because I actually read and learn and use the internet I can't possibly be widely travelled or have any friends? And I'm the one with the closed mind????!!!
How do you imagine I know how the Women's Revolutionary Guard behaved in Iran?

Glorianny I have no idea what you know or how you know it!

I know due to two eloquent and well educated ladies who refuse to call themselves Iranian, they prefer Persian. Describing their lives before and after the change to radical Islam in their country of birth and how they managed to flee with the blessings of their family.

I think it’s better to close the Suez Canal a therefore remove the problem until the Gaza War is resolved, it’s not going to collapse world trade we just pay a little more for everything. It would affect Egypt they could be compensated.

Although we were justified in attacking the Houthis for targeting a US ship, we don’t want to start a war in the Gulf as well as Ukraine and Gaza

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny I have no idea what you know or how you know it!

I know due to two eloquent and well educated ladies who refuse to call themselves Iranian, they prefer Persian. Describing their lives before and after the change to radical Islam in their country of birth and how they managed to flee with the blessings of their family.

Of course Iranians are Persians. Of course many flew the country. Some of them were supporters of the Shah, some of them brought money out and look after their family's financial assets here. There are also many Iranian students in our universities. Some of them go back some of them stay.Some of them bring their children with them.
It's all irrelevant there are still women in Iran who supported the revolution and joined the Women's Revolutionary Guard.
Now I'm going to stop this ridiculous game of you trying to prove you know more than me about something.
Oh and they speak Farsi. I've taught children who only spoke it.

Katie59

I think it’s better to close the Suez Canal a therefore remove the problem until the Gaza War is resolved, it’s not going to collapse world trade we just pay a little more for everything. It would affect Egypt they could be compensated.

Although we were justified in attacking the Houthis for targeting a US ship, we don’t want to start a war in the Gulf as well as Ukraine and Gaza

That's an interesting solution. I do think it will be less and less used. It's far easier to pass the increased cost of transport on to the consumer than it is to sort out the insurance if your vessel is hijacked or even delayed by Houthi fire.

In more normal times, would the UN not have had a peacekeeping role in keeping shipping safe?

Glorianny I have no idea what you are trying to prove other than you know more than anyone else…

Glorianny

Katie59

I think it’s better to close the Suez Canal a therefore remove the problem until the Gaza War is resolved, it’s not going to collapse world trade we just pay a little more for everything. It would affect Egypt they could be compensated.

Although we were justified in attacking the Houthis for targeting a US ship, we don’t want to start a war in the Gulf as well as Ukraine and Gaza

That's an interesting solution. I do think it will be less and less used. It's far easier to pass the increased cost of transport on to the consumer than it is to sort out the insurance if your vessel is hijacked or even delayed by Houthi fire.

Well, that's what I suggested yesterday, remove the targets...

I'm glad I'm not the only one...

What do people think the Houthi would do next if they've no shipping to detain?

ronib

In more normal times, would the UN not have had a peacekeeping role in keeping shipping safe?

I don't think the UN has any teeth left, ronib

MaizieD

ronib

In more normal times, would the UN not have had a peacekeeping role in keeping shipping safe?

I don't think the UN has any teeth left, ronib

Unfortunately I agree with you, the UN appears to be as effective as the proverbial chocolate teapot.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

ronib

In more normal times, would the UN not have had a peacekeeping role in keeping shipping safe?

I don't think the UN has any teeth left, ronib

Unfortunately I agree with you, the UN appears to be as effective as the proverbial chocolate teapot.

Well it might help if countries like Israel actually complied with the resolutions they passed.
The UN only works if the rules they were established with are kept by everyone.

Ah well, China supplies most of our goods and services now anyway. I don’t think closing the Suez will make that much difference. We don’t get a lot from Europe these days, or the Middle East really, except petrol. Maybe the electric car roll out will be a bit faster.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

ronib

In more normal times, would the UN not have had a peacekeeping role in keeping shipping safe?

I don't think the UN has any teeth left, ronib

Unfortunately I agree with you, the UN appears to be as effective as the proverbial chocolate teapot.

I agree.

It's a waste of time and money.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

ronib

In more normal times, would the UN not have had a peacekeeping role in keeping shipping safe?

I don't think the UN has any teeth left, ronib

Unfortunately I agree with you, the UN appears to be as effective as the proverbial chocolate teapot.

Well it might help if countries like Israel actually complied with the resolutions they passed.
The UN only works if the rules they were established with are kept by everyone.

Those comments just prove how ineffective and useless the UN is!

A very quick look at the wiki seems to show bias against Israel and preference for Palestine in the UN.

ronib

A very quick look at the wiki seems to show bias against Israel and preference for Palestine in the UN.

That's because Israel has broken so many of the rules of the UN. Taking territory by force and refusing to return it. Blockading a country. Making some of its people second class citizens.
Palestine as a country claims Jerusalem as its capital, but that and much of the rest of its territory is administered by the Israelis. It's effectively an occupation
Gaza used to be Egyptian until Israel overran it and forced the Palestinians into it.