Is escalating the conflict by bombing the Houthis the way to go?

Just wondering where in the world the Jewish people should go if you deny them Israel? They have worked hard to make it a modern country, should they just leave - because that is what you seem to be saying? Back way back when they moved out of Egypt into the desert for 40 years, would you want them to go back there? They actually do have a long and ancient history in the Middle East,just as much as the Palestinians.

I think Glorianny makes her views quite plain, nanna8

nanna8

Just wondering where in the world the Jewish people should go if you deny them Israel? They have worked hard to make it a modern country, should they just leave - because that is what you seem to be saying? Back way back when they moved out of Egypt into the desert for 40 years, would you want them to go back there? They actually do have a long and ancient history in the Middle East,just as much as the Palestinians.

Over 500,000 people marched in London at the weekend among them a large group of Jewish people. This concept that Israel acts in the name of all Jews has to stop. Israel has rejected a two state solution many times and occupies land they took by force against International Law. Asking them to return to their own borders is not denying them a state. Try reading the account of the Rabbi I posted earlier on this thread

Asking them to return to their own borders is not denying them a state.

I agree, Glorianny.

I don't think many would have denied Israel their State after the terrible experience of the Jews in the 1930s and WW2, but their aggressive occupation of land beyond its borders since the establishment of Israel has alienated a lot of goodwill.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

ronib

In more normal times, would the UN not have had a peacekeeping role in keeping shipping safe?

I don't think the UN has any teeth left, ronib

Unfortunately I agree with you, the UN appears to be as effective as the proverbial chocolate teapot.

Well it might help if countries like Israel actually complied with the resolutions they passed.
The UN only works if the rules they were established with are kept by everyone.

Russia doesn’t comply with anything it doesn’t fancy.

Reading posts on here you’d imagine this war has very clear baddies and goodies, but it’s far more complex than taking sides. Hamas are undoubtedly terrorists with little regard for human life, but is Netanyahu’s extreme right wing and uncompromising government any better?

I suspect the human reaction of most of us was horror and disgust at the carnage wreaked on innocent families by Hamas on Oct 7th, but also feel similar reactions when we see maiming and deaths of innocent families in Gaza, and destruction of their homes.

Unfortunately the polarisation of political debate seems to mean that we have to sign up to one camp or the other, but I suspect many of us are equally disgusted by both.

These Israelis and Palestinians are our fellow human beings and in essence wish the same for their lives and children as we do.

Hate for one side or another is not the way. War has to end eventually and compromises have to be made.

Oreo

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

ronib

In more normal times, would the UN not have had a peacekeeping role in keeping shipping safe?

I don't think the UN has any teeth left, ronib

Unfortunately I agree with you, the UN appears to be as effective as the proverbial chocolate teapot.

Well it might help if countries like Israel actually complied with the resolutions they passed.
The UN only works if the rules they were established with are kept by everyone.

Russia doesn’t comply with anything it doesn’t fancy.

No but Russia is kept within certain boundaries by opposition from other countries supported by the west. No one supports the Palestinians without being accused of supporting terrorism.

Women’s Revolutionary Guard.
In any society there are women that have a conservative outlook, who think other women behave badly and should be controlled. There are also women that bully others it only takes a government that also has that opinion to have a dress code police.

Expecting every country to have the same freedoms that we have is unrealistic.

Farzanah

Reading posts on here you’d imagine this war has very clear baddies and goodies, but it’s far more complex than taking sides. Hamas are undoubtedly terrorists with little regard for human life, but is Netanyahu’s extreme right wing and uncompromising government any better?

I suspect the human reaction of most of us was horror and disgust at the carnage wreaked on innocent families by Hamas on Oct 7th, but also feel similar reactions when we see maiming and deaths of innocent families in Gaza, and destruction of their homes.

Unfortunately the polarisation of political debate seems to mean that we have to sign up to one camp or the other, but I suspect many of us are equally disgusted by both.

These Israelis and Palestinians are our fellow human beings and in essence wish the same for their lives and children as we do.

Hate for one side or another is not the way. War has to end eventually and compromises have to be made.

I don’t take sides in this conflict, both are to blame, Israel for treating the Palestinians badly and Hamas for wanting to destroy Israel. Looking back at all the violence over the years Palestinians attack Israel, they strike back and ten times as many Palestinians die.

If Israelis had not stolen Palestinian land and Palestinians had not elected Hamas there would not have been a war. So the solution is for Hamas to leave Gaza and Israel to reverse the expansion.

I had the saddest conversation about Israel today. There will be no peace for at least 100 years. There might be a pause in a few months but fighting will resume. Nothing is going to change. I almost wept. How did life get to this point?

Farzanah- I agree about the push to ‘take sides’ and posted about that earlier.
The world seems increasingly polarised and the Israel_Palestine situation reflects that. Discussions with my friends and family suggest many of us see 7 October and the continuing response of bombing as being obscene.
I find those who seek to ‘justify’ 7/10 by blaming Balfour then the Israelis very difficult to accept.

1947 happened. A way forward which doesn’t include mor killing has to be found

Oh and they speak Farsi. I've taught children who only spoke it.

Oh you speak fluent Farsi too? Amazing

Not sure why posters keep saying that Israel ‘stole’ the land. The Jews lived there going back about four thousand years so how can it have been stolen? I believe the groups that eventually became known as the Palestinians (they are comprised of various tribes as I
understand it) also lived there for thousands of years. Neither side stole it, they were always there, it’s just that after the Holocaust many more Jewish people went to live there because they felt they needed a safe homeland, not that Israel is in fact, actually safe for them. There have been many wars with the surrounding countries since then because all of the surrounding countries want to clear the area of Jews. However they don’t want to offer the Palestinians a safe sanctuary either.

Steady on maddyone, don’t be posting calm comments about the history here ……

Both sides in this conflict have faults - like most conflicts. Nothing we can do or say will make an iota of difference. It is something they have to sort out themselves and it will take a long time. Fighting around that area has continued on and off since biblical times. Unfortunately very powerful nations become involved and supply weapons to their favoured side which puts the whole lot of us in danger. The British are a belligerent nation and so are the Americans, they are always there somewhere behind the scenes. As with Ireland when the US was supplying weapons.

tickingbird

^Oh and they speak Farsi. I've taught children who only spoke it.^

Oh you speak fluent Farsi too? Amazing

Unlikely. Re Farsi, the I’ve taught children who only speak it sounds boastful if you don’t work in school. It might just be that, but . . .
We get children in school who don’t speak English, but only their mother-tongue. It used to be because their parents were at Uni here, or because they were immigrants, so we had Mandarin, Taiwanese, Russian, Urdu etc. Now it’s also refugees, e.g. from Ukraine or Iran.
We (and they) learn to cope, and they learn English far quicker than we learnt any of their languages. Though we all make an effort to say a few words, even if it’s only greetings.

tickingbird

^Oh and they speak Farsi. I've taught children who only spoke it.^

Oh you speak fluent Farsi too? Amazing

No I didn't say that. I said the children only spoke it. The way I coped was by finding another child who spoke both Farsi and English and getting them to translate for me. The children though were amazingly passive and tended to just follow the others. I'm told education in Iran is very strict.
Honestly some people have no idea about teaching in inner city schools the problems of coping with children who arrive with little or no English when ESL teaching has been totally destroyed.You cope. You have to.

maddyone

Not sure why posters keep saying that Israel ‘stole’ the land. The Jews lived there going back about four thousand years so how can it have been stolen? I believe the groups that eventually became known as the Palestinians (they are comprised of various tribes as I
understand it) also lived there for thousands of years. Neither side stole it, they were always there, it’s just that after the Holocaust many more Jewish people went to live there because they felt they needed a safe homeland, not that Israel is in fact, actually safe for them. There have been many wars with the surrounding countries since then because all of the surrounding countries want to clear the area of Jews. However they don’t want to offer the Palestinians a safe sanctuary either.

Sorry but "all the surrounding countries" do not want to clear the area of Jews. And Jews were living alongside Palestinians in peace and harmony until Zionist Israelis decided to evict them.
I'm posting again the link to the Rabbi, his parents were from Iraq, he lived in Palestine and was thrown out of Israel. He gives an interesting perspective on the relationship between Muslims and Jews and the protection Muslims have given Jews in many places.
www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israeli-officials-should-be-judged-and-jailed-in-the-hague-for-gaza-crimes-jewish-rabbi/3104253

I know that Jews and Palestinians lived alongside one another for centuries, but there were scuffles along the way.
I realise you don’t have any empathy for the zionists who arrived after WW2 but many people do because they believe that the Holocaust made a homeland for the Jews a necessity, not a luxury!

And yes the surrounding countries would very much like the whole of Israel Jew free, as indeed would many people in England, otherwise they wouldn’t be singing the song From the river to the sea. Israel has fought many wars since 1948 just to exist. However Israel has been recognised as a legitimate country since the late 1940s and so I don’t think it’s going anywhere.
The solution is a two state solution but the Palestinians didn’t want that. Hopefully they will agree soon and there will be peace.
The people of Gaza, Israel, and the West Bank deserve peace.

Honestly some people have no idea about teaching in inner city schools the problems of coping with children who arrive with little or no English when ESL teaching has been totally destroyed.You cope. You have to.
And don’t I know it! But Glorianny, you talk as if you’re the only one who can do it!🤣🤣🤣
Don’t get much more inner city than inner city Liverpool, where even the English spoken is sometimes like a second language.

Get on with yourself Molly, there’s only one expert on everything posting here

Mollygo

^Honestly some people have no idea about teaching in inner city schools the problems of coping with children who arrive with little or no English when ESL teaching has been totally destroyed.You cope. You have to.^
And don’t I know it! But Glorianny, you talk as if you’re the only one who can do it!🤣🤣🤣
Don’t get much more inner city than inner city Liverpool, where even the English spoken is sometimes like a second language.

I didn't say that and my remark was addressed to tickingbird. Why would you assume it was directed at you?

Mollygo

tickingbird

Oh and they speak Farsi. I've taught children who only spoke it.

Oh you speak fluent Farsi too? Amazing

Unlikely. Re Farsi, the I’ve taught children who only speak it sounds boastful if you don’t work in school. It might just be that, but . . .
We get children in school who don’t speak English, but only their mother-tongue. It used to be because their parents were at Uni here, or because they were immigrants, so we had Mandarin, Taiwanese, Russian, Urdu etc. Now it’s also refugees, e.g. from Ukraine or Iran.
We (and they) learn to cope, and they learn English far quicker than we learnt any of their languages. Though we all make an effort to say a few words, even if it’s only greetings.

Our friend taught a class of Y1 children whose English was very limited (or non-existent) from various countries. Not only did she have to teach them English but Welsh too. She is a native Welsh speaker, however, as a child English was her second language.

maddyone

And yes the surrounding countries would very much like the whole of Israel Jew free, as indeed would many people in England, otherwise they wouldn’t be singing the song From the river to the sea. Israel has fought many wars since 1948 just to exist. However Israel has been recognised as a legitimate country since the late 1940s and so I don’t think it’s going anywhere.
The solution is a two state solution but the Palestinians didn’t want that. Hopefully they will agree soon and there will be peace.
The people of Gaza, Israel, and the West Bank deserve peace.

Palestine has agreed to a two state solution many times.
The reasons talks fall apart are many, some are Israeli problems and some Palestinian. When Hamas became the government they wanted a two state solution but Israel refused to negotiate with them.